During the Vietnam conflict, an un-named US Army Officer famously said: "we have to destroy that village to save it."
False flag?
- Thread starter tangychips
- Start date
During the Vietnam conflict, an un-named US Army Officer famously said: "we have to destroy that village to save it."
Yeah. How dare people care about their families. Don't they know that when they come to Australia they have to renounce everything in their life that came before it.
Irish Americans in Boston and elsewhere supported and even funded the IRA, nail bombs and all. None of them were locked up.
But when Muslims do the same, ASIO and the FBI go into overdrive and work tirelessly to lock them up.
How about we lock up ALL baddies, not just the ones who look a bit different?
The image of the West as War Criminals is a portrait the West has painted itself. It's not an image created by enemies of the West. Washington and its British and French puppet governments are poised to yet again reveal their criminality after declaring that Syria can be attacked without UN authorisation, just as Serbia and Libya were militarily attacked without UN authorisation. The Western democracies have already established precedents for violating international law.
The UK Independent reports over the weekend that Obama, Cameron, and Hollande agreed to launch cruise missile attacks against the Syrian government within two weeks despite the lack of any authorisation from the UN and without any evidence. One reason for the rush to war is to prevent the UN inspection that Washington knows would disprove its claim and possibly implicate them in the false flag attack by the “rebels,” who assembled a large number of children into one area to be chemically murdered with the blame pinned by Washington on the Syrian government.
Another reason for the rush to war is that Cameron, the UK prime minister, wants to get the war going before the British parliament can block him for providing cover for Obama’s war crimes the way that Tony Blair provided cover for George W. Bush, for which Blair was duly rewarded. What does Cameron care about Syrian lives when he can leave office into the waiting arms of a $50 million fortune.
see, if western countries didn't provide political support for the uprising in the beginning, this civil war would never start.
the demonstrations would've ended like they always do, couple of hundreds people in jail, and the rest enjoying their happy lives.
now with the political support from the west, we have what we have.
perfect example of this is gulf countries, where the demonstrations happened around the same time, and were quashed with the same force, if not greater.
but for some reason western countries chose to ignore it, and all is quiet
the demonstrations would've ended like they always do, couple of hundreds people in jail, and the rest enjoying their happy lives.
now with the political support from the west, we have what we have.
perfect example of this is gulf countries, where the demonstrations happened around the same time, and were quashed with the same force, if not greater.
but for some reason western countries chose to ignore it, and all is quiet
Nothing of the sort.
As I said; go to the Country and fight the good fight there.
Clogging up streets here, and risking an escalation into violence and worse will not change anything there.
So; no need to disrupt our fragile peace for nothing.
Far more demonstration and protest could be achieved from here through electronic media, and no one gets hurt on our streets.
How many folk from Syria or wherever will be watching a news broadcast from Marrickville or wherever about a protest from the rellos or Countrymen?
I'd wager....zippo.
Most of the world not only don't care about Australia; they don't even know where it is, so a news report on Channel 10 about a few protesters back in Aus ain't gunna cut it.
I agree with the OP. This whole situation stinks. It defies logic, why would Assad use chemical weapons when that would give UK/US forces the exact excuse they need to attack?
It's hard to believe how quickly people forgot about the non-existent 'WMDs' of Iraq.
What we need to do is wait for the independent UN inspection to be finalised, not send the cruise missile warships in.
Expand your sources of information. Open your minds. Go read http://rt.com/ (Russian Today - it's in English) for another take on the situation.
The US have found a cheaper way to overthrow a country, via internal revolution, mass media and social media manipulation.
Iraq
Afghanistan
Libya
Egypt
Syria
And you can just tell they have Iran in their sights...
It's hard to believe how quickly people forgot about the non-existent 'WMDs' of Iraq.
What we need to do is wait for the independent UN inspection to be finalised, not send the cruise missile warships in.
Expand your sources of information. Open your minds. Go read http://rt.com/ (Russian Today - it's in English) for another take on the situation.
The US have found a cheaper way to overthrow a country, via internal revolution, mass media and social media manipulation.
Iraq
Afghanistan
Libya
Egypt
Syria
And you can just tell they have Iran in their sights...
I agree with the OP. This whole situation stinks. It defies logic, why would Assad use chemical weapons when that would give UK/US forces the exact excuse they need to attack? ..
Back in the 60s, the same false flag was used when the US claimed that an aircraft carrier in the Gulf of Tonkin had been attacked by a tiny North Vietnamese patrol boat. This event triggered a full scale war in Vietnam, which involved not just the US but many of its allies.
30 years later, the former Defence Secretary, McNamara, admitted it was a lie. And these days, the US and Vietnam enjoy excellent military and diplomatic relations.
Like it or not, in the long run, Uncle Sam and the military-industrial complex always wins. Great for shareholders, but not for mothers or misguided young patriots in uniform.
Maybe a government rocket struck a weapons cache. Maybe the government forces did it. Maybe one of the groups opposing the government did it.
How on earth is a United Nations inspection team going to deduce who the culprit was?
Surely all they could prove is that the deaths occurred as a result of chemicals.
I would agree with this. The most likely outcome is will be that the evidence is inconclusive.
So what does this mean? Should we attack another country because of this? I don't think so.
IMO it's more about changing what is happening here (namely our governments support and commitment of our young soldiers to attacking other countries in our name without approval of the international community or law).
it seems that US, UK and France were able to deduce that the culprit is the government in no time.
surely UN inspectors would be able to do it too?
i wouldn't be surprised if 50 years from now we discover that this was an operation of French secret services to get US drawn into the war. they seem to be very keen to start a war but lack the power to do it on their own
but, the protests about an incident overseas are mostly about that incident first, and by those directly related to the Countrymen involved.
Meanwhile, we have troops on the ground every single day overseas.
Where are/were those protesters over all the previous years of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc?
As far as I know, the chemical weapon bombing incident did not involve any Australian troops in the conflict, and everyone I have talked to is disgusted by it.
Therefore, these protesters who only pop up when an incident happens over in their or their families' country of origin are really not interested in an overall attitude of anti-war and no-involvement by the Aus Govt or Army, otherwise they would be camped out in Canberra or Puckapunyal etc all the time.
Based on that, if they feel that strongly about what happened, get on the plane and go fight or protest in that Country.
We don't want those wars and deadly squabbles over there in those various countries being dragged across here to our backyard thanks.
It could be that my brain hasn't woken up today, but I'm not exactly sure what point you are trying to make BayView. I'm totally with you on warring ethic groups from other countries bringing their hate and battles over here.... when you enter Australia you need to leave all that stuff at the gate, absolutely, 100%. We are a peaceful country where people can turn over a new leaf.
I'm talking about something different though.
There were over 100,000 people who marched in Melbourne's largest peace rally against the Iraq war in 2003 - http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/02/14/1044927801876.html
I marched in this, although I have no connections or family in Iraq or the Middle East (and most of the crowd would have been the same). I don't even know how many Iraqi or Syrian people there are in Melbourne, but it's surely hardly any. I was however in the Army for almost 10 years and have friends who served in both senseless and wasteful wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The reason I marched is because I don't want our government to support the US's government (or the US elite, rather) long term plan of domination in the Middle East, attacking other countries and lying to us about it why. Whether this support is in the form of boots on the ground or just political support.
For Kevin Rudd and the US/UK/France to come out and say that they are 'convinced' based on the 'evidence they've seen' that the Syrian regime is behind this, practically hours after the attack had happened, when the Swedish lead UN weapons inspector teams say they need a couple more days to determine who did it, is just a farce really. Why don't they submit this 'evidence' they have to the UN for examination? Who made the US the global policeman (when we have the UN)?
UK parliament has just voted against this right now, as UK Labour has blocked calls for early intervention because 'people just don't believe us any more after Iraq'. The US are now on their own.
Checkout this speech from General Wesley Clark. Retired 4-star U.S. Army general - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha1rEhovONU
This was originally from 2007...
This is what I believe most people are protesting about. How is this in the interests of Australia?
To be honest, with all this NSA spying stuff, I'm even a little hesitant posting about it.
I'm talking about something different though.
There were over 100,000 people who marched in Melbourne's largest peace rally against the Iraq war in 2003 - http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/02/14/1044927801876.html
I marched in this, although I have no connections or family in Iraq or the Middle East (and most of the crowd would have been the same). I don't even know how many Iraqi or Syrian people there are in Melbourne, but it's surely hardly any. I was however in the Army for almost 10 years and have friends who served in both senseless and wasteful wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The reason I marched is because I don't want our government to support the US's government (or the US elite, rather) long term plan of domination in the Middle East, attacking other countries and lying to us about it why. Whether this support is in the form of boots on the ground or just political support.
For Kevin Rudd and the US/UK/France to come out and say that they are 'convinced' based on the 'evidence they've seen' that the Syrian regime is behind this, practically hours after the attack had happened, when the Swedish lead UN weapons inspector teams say they need a couple more days to determine who did it, is just a farce really. Why don't they submit this 'evidence' they have to the UN for examination? Who made the US the global policeman (when we have the UN)?
UK parliament has just voted against this right now, as UK Labour has blocked calls for early intervention because 'people just don't believe us any more after Iraq'. The US are now on their own.
Checkout this speech from General Wesley Clark. Retired 4-star U.S. Army general - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha1rEhovONU
This was originally from 2007...
This is what I believe most people are protesting about. How is this in the interests of Australia?
To be honest, with all this NSA spying stuff, I'm even a little hesitant posting about it.
David, i think you are talking about different kinds of protests.
If I understand BayView correctly, he is talking about protests staged by nationals of foreign countries about the things that happen in other countries.
For example, Syrians protesting in Australia in support (or against) the actions of Syrian government. Most of us don't care about it. It's their government and if they want to protest or change something they should go to Syria and use whatever means they want to get their point across.
Now the protests you mentioned as an example are different kinds of protests.
They are protests where Australian people protest about the actions of Australian government and are doing it on Australian soil.
So they are actually the kind of protests that BayView is suggesting should happen.
If I understand BayView correctly, he is talking about protests staged by nationals of foreign countries about the things that happen in other countries.
For example, Syrians protesting in Australia in support (or against) the actions of Syrian government. Most of us don't care about it. It's their government and if they want to protest or change something they should go to Syria and use whatever means they want to get their point across.
Now the protests you mentioned as an example are different kinds of protests.
They are protests where Australian people protest about the actions of Australian government and are doing it on Australian soil.
So they are actually the kind of protests that BayView is suggesting should happen.
Got it in one.
My worry is the scenario where No.1 Group of Nationals/supporters are out on the street protesting the Government or whatever incident in XYZ Country, and then the No.2 Group of Nationals/supporters which oppose No.1's views then hears about the protest.
Before you can scream out holy shot, batman - it's machetes and axes etc at 3 or less paces.
And the Gubb incident they are slashing each other about has not one iota of importance or effect on our lives here in Aus.
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From the short time I have spent on earth I have learnt that the human race can be extremely cruel, greedy and brutal. We will murder men, women, children, families, ethnic races, religions, the environment and the earth.
It is entirely possible that the Syrian government did this to its own people to remain in power and it is also entirely possible that the Syrian rebels did this to themselves to draw in help from outside.
But we will never know to the full extent what has happened in events like this as we wont be privy to all the information at hand. We won't be able to review all the evidence that top level government security officials would get, classified UN documents nor would be able to hear first hand from the victims/villains.
We only know what is reported in the mainstream media and quite often its spun a particular way to sell newspapers.
People will believe what they want to believe and with the internet there is always somewhere that supports their view. (some people believe that the US government staged the sandy hook massacre where 20 children where shot, to introduce tighter gun control measures....)
Countries will only act if it benefits them in some way or another, hopefully the Australian government acts in our best interest and supports a path that brings stability to the region and ends the senseless violence that we have all become accustomed too.
It is entirely possible that the Syrian government did this to its own people to remain in power and it is also entirely possible that the Syrian rebels did this to themselves to draw in help from outside.
But we will never know to the full extent what has happened in events like this as we wont be privy to all the information at hand. We won't be able to review all the evidence that top level government security officials would get, classified UN documents nor would be able to hear first hand from the victims/villains.
We only know what is reported in the mainstream media and quite often its spun a particular way to sell newspapers.
People will believe what they want to believe and with the internet there is always somewhere that supports their view. (some people believe that the US government staged the sandy hook massacre where 20 children where shot, to introduce tighter gun control measures....)
Countries will only act if it benefits them in some way or another, hopefully the Australian government acts in our best interest and supports a path that brings stability to the region and ends the senseless violence that we have all become accustomed too.
the youngest of us probably will if they live long enough to see the documents declassified.
good example is recent announcement about CIA overthrowing the democratically elected president of Iran in 1953. i'm sure people were labeling this a "conspiracy theory" for quite a while.
or the declassified documents that show US federal government helped Saddam to conduct chemical weapon attacks on Iran and the civilians in the area in the 80s.