FREEVIEW - New free to air TV channels are coming soon

[topcropper]

So, this freeview TV is great.

But does anyone know why the full high definition channels are not the main channels? And why are the number of high definition channels reducing every time new channels are introduced? Is there not enough bandwidth?

Why does 10 have 1 HD as 1080i HD, but the 10 digital is 576i SD?
Why does 9 have GEM as 1080i HD but 9 digital is 576i SD?
Why does 7 have 7mate as 1080i HD but 7 digital as 576i SD?

I'd have thought it would be sensible to keep the main flagship channels as the full definition rather then the secondary channels? And a lot of the shows on the secondary channels are repeats of 70's and 80's stuff, or 1950's movies, where the full high def is wasted.

Will all the channels be full high def in the future, or is there simply not enough bandwidth?


See ya's.

 

[BV]

But does anyone know why the full high definition channels are not the main channels?

TC I believe that when digital TV started the gov was only allowing 1 TV program to be broadcasted and HD receivers were rare so it was decided to have a separate HD channel showing the same thing as the main channel.

I don't know if SD boxes will decode HD, if they could then there would be no need for program duplication eg ch9 & ch90.

Perhaps its time for the broadcasters to rethink the whole channel structure and to offer more channels.

Bandwidth is an issue but with the turning off of the analogue signals there will be space for more digital channels

 

[Olly]

Some months back when I got a HD TV I spent ages trying to tune in the channels and all I could get was the usual. It eventually dawned on me that I have Optus Tv and am therefore using their cable for aerial purposes so if I want to watch HD TV I have to be connected to the antenna fixed to my roof or wait for Optus to offer the channels.

Not whingeing or anything 'cos I probably won't watch them - (got enough TV channels to keep me occupied as is without more repeats), but it seemed stupid to me that I had to make a choice between cable antenna or roof antenna.

Surely, the next thing to happen in this new, fast moving world of ours, would be to give the big aerials hanging off people roofs the heave ho and have wireless or cable connections (with or without Foxtel/Optus TV).

I've also read a few articles that say there is no such thing as 'a digital antenna' - your ordinary antenna does the job of picking up HD channels, but may need tweaking to pick up the signal. Yet I know a few people who had a 'new digital antenna' installed so they could get HD channels, (this is after ringing up antenna companies and querying why they were having trouble tuning in the channels). Are they being ripped off? Or have the articles I've read been wrong?

 

[dan c]

So, this freeview TV is great.


Why does 10 have 1 HD as 1080i HD, but the 10 digital is 576i SD?
Why does 9 have GEM as 1080i HD but 9 digital is 576i SD?
Why does 7 have 7mate as 1080i HD but 7 digital as 576i SD?

I'd have thought it would be sensible to keep the main flagship channels as the full definition rather then the secondary channels? And a lot of the shows on the secondary channels are repeats of 70's and 80's stuff, or 1950's movies, where the full high def is wasted.

I agree, I can't work this out either. Channel 7 had the Grand Final Replay on Standard Def, while McHales Navy and other old stuff was playing on the HD channel.

Gem is the same, but at least 9 simulcast the cricket on Gem so we can see it in HD. However the sound was off by about half a second yesterday, making it annoying to watch. I guess we can't have everything.

One HD is the only HD channel showing stuff regularly in HD. The NBA & NFL look great in HD. I'll enjoy it for the next few weeks until James Packer buggers it up.

 

[lizzie]

I've also read a few articles that say there is no such thing as 'a digital antenna' - your ordinary antenna does the job of picking up HD channels, but may need tweaking to pick up the signal. Yet I know a few people who had a 'new digital antenna' installed so they could get HD channels, (this is after ringing up antenna companies and querying why they were having trouble tuning in the channels). Are they being ripped off? Or have the articles I've read been wrong?

i'd like to know this too as keep getting broken up signals for all the channels, a problem we never had with analogue - but the aerial guys says that our reception is fine (direct line of sight) and nothing wrong with the reception the the aerial plugs inside on his little computer readout machine.

he did say that we didn't need a new aerial either - but the current one is 20+ years old and rather dodgy looking - and reception is still frustrating. initially we thought it might be the weather, but happens rain, shine, windy or still.

 

[amy21322]

Hi,
When I bought a new HD TV for my PPOR, it worked perfectly using the original 20 year old UHF antenna. Like lizzie, I had good line-of sight. As I needed some ethernet cabling done, I called in a technician to do the job, and whilst he was on/in the roof, I suggested he might replace the ageing antenna and coax for the new digital TV.
He advised me that there was no such thing as a 'digital' antenna, and a new, standard UHF-type antenna was installed, along with new coax. I also had coax installed for 2 other points in the house, a 3-way splitter was used, and a booster added.
There was no change to the signal whatsoever. (as expected).
He also told me that, with digital TV, you either get the signal or you don't....there's no in-between, like analogue.
As the techo. drove off up the street, I noticed some advertising on his van referring to 'New Digital TV Antennas Installed'...
Amy

 

[BV]

Digital Antenna is a myth

Generally if someone has a reasonably good Analogue signal he should have no problem receiving digital TV using their existing antenna. Even if someone has a goasty picture, if the signal is strong enough it should work for digital TV.

Some shops and Antenna installers are promoting the so called digital antennas to make money.

Admittedly the new VHF/UHF antennas have slightly wider coverage to cover the new VHF TV frequencies on VHF ch11 and 12 but even the old antennas will pick up those frequencies (but are not optimised) so as long as your old antenna still works there is no need to buy a new one.

Outside the major city areas the TV transmission is mostly on UHF so your old UHF Antenna and the new Digital Antenna would be exactly the same thing but with a different name....

 

[amy21322]

Even if someone has a goasty picture, if the signal is strong enough it should work for digital TV.

True.
Son had poor picture quality at his low-lying home, but when he upgraded to the new digital TV, picture quality was near perfect. Old antenna, old cabling, and no booster.

Amy

 

[G_Man]

So, this freeview TV is great.

But does anyone know why the full high definition channels are not the main channels? And why are the number of high definition channels reducing every time new channels are introduced? Is there not enough bandwidth?

Why does 10 have 1 HD as 1080i HD, but the 10 digital is 576i SD?
Why does 9 have GEM as 1080i HD but 9 digital is 576i SD?
Why does 7 have 7mate as 1080i HD but 7 digital as 576i SD?

I'd have thought it would be sensible to keep the main flagship channels as the full definition rather then the secondary channels? And a lot of the shows on the secondary channels are repeats of 70's and 80's stuff, or 1950's movies, where the full high def is wasted.

Will all the channels be full high def in the future, or is there simply not enough bandwidth?


See ya's.

tc, you can read the reasons why here:
http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/community/ettamogah-pub/44001-hd-dead-australia.html

G.


.

 

[paulzag]

tc, you can read the reasons why here:
http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/community/ettamogah-pub/44001-hd-dead-australia.html

G.

.

That's why I love this forum.

Wish I came around more often these days.

Regards

Paul
(I'm still not here)

 

[Witzl]

Whilst there is no such thing as a "Digital TV antenna".... there is some truth to the fact that you MAY need to upgrade your old TV antenna to properly receive Digital TV.

The reason is simple.
For most capital cities, analogue TV is broadcast on VHF (for ABC, 7, 9 and 10) and UHF (for SBS).
The channel numbers generally correspond to the frequency channel (ie., ABC is at the frequency ch.2, seven is at freq. ch.7, etc).

HENCE - old analogue TV antennas were all designed to pick up frequency ch's, 2,7,9 and 10 for VHF.

HOWEVER - for digital, the channels are broadcast at different frequencies!!
ABC - on ch.12
Seven - on ch.6
Nine - on ch.8
TEN - on ch.11

You can see here that all digital stations are transmitted in channels 6-12 (also called VHF band3).

Where the problem most often happens, is reception for ABC and TEN (incl. ONE). Since the old analogue antennas never needed to pick up freq. channels 11 and 12, they were never designed to receive at those frequencies... and hence their reception performance is usually quite poor for ch's 11 & 12.


HOWEVER, a TV antenna that has been designed for digital TV reception is designed specifially to receive channels 6-12, thus adequately receiving ABC and TEN signals which may not have been properly received on an old analogue antenna.

On top of this, most coax antenna cables in a house are pretty old, and their connections are usually quite old and corroded. This induces performance issues, which cant always be correctly measured on a meter (as they are often dynamic).


So what is the best course of action?
SUCK IT AND SEE.
Try out your old antenna, and see if it works. If you have issues, then replace the antenna with an antenna designed for Digital TV... and if you can at the same time, upgrade your cabling, or at the very least re-do all the connections and replace the wall points.

As for where to go to for all this gear - Jaycar Electronics.


I should mention though, that for areas where analogue and digital signals are all broadcast exclusively on UHF - there should not be any reception issues from the antenna design. All you may need to do is re-do the coax cable connections and/or replace the coax cable.... and maybe replace your antenna if your old one is physically busted up.

 

[BV]

hence their reception performance is usually quite poor for ch's 11 & 12.

Witzl

The antenna gain isn't dropping off instantly but rather degrades slowly for those frequencies that are just outside its normal operating range (eg Ch11 &12).

I did some tests a few years ago when I was working for CH9 and as a general rule where an analogue signal works, digital should also work.

Ofcourse if you ask a Jaycar employee he'll tell you that you need a new Antenna....

 

[Witzl]

yeah i agree - it does degrade slowly.
However, for a number of households in the real world (ie, not a test bench), this drop in gain means poor signal on ABC and ONE-HD, and can result in the signal regularly dropping below the minimum level, especially on a cloudy or rainy day.

Yes - in theory, where analogue works, digital works....
.... but in theory, communism works too.


It is our experience with MANY customers, that when they come in to us with poor reception for TEN, ONE and ABC.... if we sell them a new antenna, they dont come back. If we were ripping them off - im sure we would know about it by now!!

You gotta remember, there are a LOT of homes where the antenna is 20+ years old, and suffering from major cockatoo damage. If that antenna were still in mint condition, with non-corroded connection points, it would possibly or probably work with Digital.
Like my home, i have a 3 year old, made-for-analogue antenna.... which works fine for Digital TV. It does pixellate and occasionally drop out during heavy rain on ABC though... but im OK with that.