Funding developments.

Hi,

I have been thinking a little bit recently about possibly buying land and building houses \ duplexes etc on them and have come across a few questions regarding being able to fund the projects.

Firstly, I assume that when you first buy the land - and then spend the time waiting for the place to be built - you have to fund the project without any rent assitance? Is this the only way of doing it? Or will some banks lend based on the fact that you are developing and allow concessions for the loan repayments etc?

Does it generally take long to put up a house on a vacant block assuming everything goes according to plan? ( i understand it rarely does) IE: 3 months, 6 months ? a year even?

Do most people find it profitable to build houses - as opposed to buying older places and refurbishing them?

Thanks for the help...

Waz11
 
developments

Thanks JoannaK - great links - and you really seem to know your stuff...

Another question - are there companies that will do it all for you?

If i find the land and then just hire a company to do all the paperwork and the building - would this substantially eat away at my profits?

Cheers,

Waz11
 
JoannaK,

I have just spent most of the day reading through all of your links and wow, pretty inspirational stuff. It is my ultimate goal to be doing what you are doing so thanks for proping up my spirits. How did the massive development end up, from reading, it was to settle in Feb this year and I pressume that it is all built and done now?? Do you also have a full time job whilst doing all this or is this your "job"? Structure, trust or company?? I watched a development near work for months and it is all finished now and would love to do something like that one!!

For me, I am currently looking at putting a house on a block that now has an existing house on it. Due to flood restrictions etc it would have to be a removable house on stilts or built on stilts. Do you (or any other forumites) have any experience with building on a block that you already have a dwelling on? I have spoken with council and we can actually sub divide to 600m2 and we have 2000m2. In the area though, anything less than 1000 would look out of place! Your experiences seem to be with purchasing the land and developing from there.

In the end, the plan is to develop and keep for the sake of rental income and then increased value. So I suppose the question I am asking is would you see that the bank would give similar loans to yours if the end goal is to not sell?

For those who may have done it before, do you have to subdivide if you are still going to own both houses. I suppose you do for valuation purposes??

Thanks for any assistance, and thanks again JoannaK!!

Dos
 
waz11 said:
Thanks JoannaK - great links - and you really seem to know your stuff...

Another question - are there companies that will do it all for you?

If i find the land and then just hire a company to do all the paperwork and the building - would this substantially eat away at my profits?

Cheers,

Waz11

Hi Waz11,

I recently heard of someone here in Sydney that will assist, but I wouldn't use them myself; they call themselves development consultants and will do the feasabilities, assist in the procurement of finance, assist in negotiating with council and all the other stuff involved even before soil is turned.

It is extremely important when developing that you have control. No-one has the same sense of urgency as you do. No-one has the sound of a ringing cash register in their ear other than you. No-one feels the pressure of deadlines like you do. No-one has the end vision that you do.

The most I would use (and this is only what I would do - others may do differently) would be an experienced project manager during the construction phase to manage the contracts with subbies, OHS, payments to subbies etc etc

You will have assistance along the way. Your architect, your town planner, your surveyor, the bank's QS, the builder.

Hope this helps.
 
Dos said:
JoannaK,

I have just spent most of the day reading through all of your links and wow, pretty inspirational stuff. It is my ultimate goal to be doing what you are doing so thanks for proping up my spirits.

I'm glad you've enjoyed them.

How did the massive development end up, from reading, it was to settle in Feb this year and I pressume that it is all built and done now??

It was supposed to be approved and settled by Feb this year, but we extended our contracts by an extra 12 months. Council still has not approved it, and we have lodged our application to have the DA heard at the Land and Environment Court in January. It will be approved, it's now just a matter of who will approve it. The proposal has become a bit of a political hot potato and the Council doesn't want to be seen as favouring the developers so they're dragging their feet.

Do you also have a full time job whilst doing all this or is this your "job"? Structure, trust or company?? I watched a development near work for months and it is all finished now and would love to do something like that one!!

This is my 'job', although it's not a job. ATM we operate as a company, and any properties not sold are retained within the company structure for financing reasons. As soon as this big one is finished we will be moving our retained properties out of the company into a different structure.

It is very exciting, and rewarding, to watch a development come out of the ground; and moreso when you've actually designed it with an end vision in mind, navigated the DA process, and basically put it all together like a little jigsaw.

But, at the end of the day, it's a means to an end. I won't be doing it for ever; maybe 2 more projects and that's it, then I'll do smaller townhouse/villa type projects to keep my mind busy.

For me, I am currently looking at putting a house on a block that now has an existing house on it. Due to flood restrictions etc it would have to be a removable house on stilts or built on stilts. Do you (or any other forumites) have any experience with building on a block that you already have a dwelling on? I have spoken with council and we can actually sub divide to 600m2 and we have 2000m2. In the area though, anything less than 1000 would look out of place! Your experiences seem to be with purchasing the land and developing from there.

I don't have any experience in what you are looking at doing. We basically demolish and erect an entirely different structure on the land to what was there when we purchased.

In the end, the plan is to develop and keep for the sake of rental income and then increased value. So I suppose the question I am asking is would you see that the bank would give similar loans to yours if the end goal is to not sell?

Yes. My main financier was Suncorp. They have a development funding department and they also have a separate department that deals only with developers looking to refinance out of their construction facility and into an investment facility.

For those who may have done it before, do you have to subdivide if you are still going to own both houses. I suppose you do for valuation purposes??

Once you subdivide your property/ies will gain value; they are less valuable in one line. Also, you'd want to subdivide as you've built according to the regulations of the day. I'd hate to build to the regulations of the day and not subdivide and then have to do a whole lot of upgrades 10 years down the track when I do want to subdivide because the regulations have changed.

Thanks for any assistance, and thanks again JoannaK!!

Dos

Hope this helps
 
JoannaK,

Thanks for your as always helpful information. The beauty of the plan is to find a "free" house that we can move out there. Otherwise, a cheap house earmarked for demolition that is in reasonable condition. Have done the basic research into the costs associated with moving a house that distance and a reno when it is there which works out around half the price of getting something built from scratch. Have lots more research to do but on the surface, looks pretty do-able.

Good luck with your hearing, hope it all works out OK. Can't imagine the frustration that must be involved with the hold ups, almost 2 years!!

Thanks again for your advice and I will be sure to keep you updated!

Dos
 
Hi JoannaK,

Just thought I would send a quick post to see how your development was coming along. After reading the "28th Feb" thread I thought I would have bit of a look back!

My situation at the moment is that I can't get any help from the local council. They are being a massive brick wall which I keep running head long into. I do however have an "in" with the Mayor through a friend so may have to go down this road. Another opportunity has come up in the meantime but as I am not set up in a trust or company, finance is going to be a hurdle. Did you set up the company specifically for your developments? The opportunity is a house on a block that has already been sub-divided to 2 blocks of 405sqm. We could move the house off and build 2 new ones and sell them both. Sorry for the Q's but how hard was it for you to take the leap to get into developing? It all seems a little daunting to us at the moment but I don't want to be one of those GUNNA'S!!.

Cheers again for your thoughts!!

Dos
 
dos,
i take it this house is in the middle of both blocks,
try and use the existing house move it across,even if you
find a house for free you will still need 60 k plus to refit the house
on the other block,the only question is is there any money in this deal
what area is this property in?
imho.
if you think so then do the deal.
good luck '

willair
 
Dos said:
Hi JoannaK,

Just thought I would send a quick post to see how your development was coming along. After reading the "28th Feb" thread I thought I would have bit of a look back!

Hi Dos,

Still not approved. Land and Environment hearing set down for 26th April. We've been asked to make a few more minor amendments, which we have done, and it will be put up to the next Council meeting next week. If it doesn't get approved then it's off to court.

In the process of getting all my CC drawings done to save a bit of time, and I'm preparing all the marketing material now so I can hit the ground running when it's all approved. I have to sell a large % of the building before I can draw down any construction funding!

My situation at the moment is that I can't get any help from the local council. They are being a massive brick wall which I keep running head long into. I do however have an "in" with the Mayor through a friend so may have to go down this road.

My experience has really opened my eyes as to how ineffective and self serving councils and councillors can be. It's absolutely incredible. We also had to seek the assistance of the mayor and the general manager of the council, which has helped - so keep pursuing that line if you can, although there will probably be a point where the mayor tells you he can't do any more for you. He's got to make it look as though he hasn't got any influence to protect his votes.

Another opportunity has come up in the meantime but as I am not set up in a trust or company, finance is going to be a hurdle. Did you set up the company specifically for your developments?

Yes, both my husband and I were operating different companies, and set up our current one specifically for our projects when we decided to team up.

The opportunity is a house on a block that has already been sub-divided to 2 blocks of 405sqm. We could move the house off and build 2 new ones and sell them both.

Willair has a good point - are you able to move the existing house instead of removing it all together?

Sorry for the Q's but how hard was it for you to take the leap to get into developing? It all seems a little daunting to us at the moment but I don't want to be one of those GUNNA'S!!.

Cheers again for your thoughts!!

Dos

Ask away, I don't mind at all - just sometimes I don't have the time to answer as indepth as I'd like (I bring my 8month old to work with me, and he takes an enormous amount of my time!).

How hard was it for me? I have to confess that it wasn't that hard as Roy had been developing for many many years, and he guided me every step of the way. But, at the same time it was scary and nerve-wrecking. And all Roy really did was tell me what to do next, but he didn't tell me how. So I was kind of thrown in the deep end. I was lucky that I had some excellent consultants who educated me along the way.

Hope this helps.
 
Hi Dos,

Just thought you'd like to know that this project has now been approved, and we'll be demolishing in the next 2 months.
 
Congratulations JoannaK,

Did Council come to their senses before the Land & Environment hearing?

Please keep us informed of your progress, if you have time.

ArchiZEN
 
"Yes, both my husband and I were operating different companies, and set up our current one specifically for our projects when we decided to team up."

Joanna,

Just want to clarify my understanding of your strategy...do you do the developments in a company structure as it is easier to source funding than if you were to use a trust structure. Then remaining properties not sold from the development (if any) are retained, but you transfer them into a trust structure?

If this is the case, wouldn't it be less expensive to start the development in a trust structure and avoid transfer costs later? Is it that difficult to source funding for your projects if utilising a trust structure?

Thanks for your comments, they are inspiring :)
 
archizen said:
Congratulations JoannaK,

Did Council come to their senses before the Land & Environment hearing?

Please keep us informed of your progress, if you have time.

ArchiZEN

Hi ArchiZen,

It took alot of lobbying and discussion with various Councillors (they had been given ALOT of incorrect information about our proposal and it's impact on a public plaza). Once the Councillors were able to separate what the issues were, and what was our responsibility and what was their responsibility, they had realised that they couldn't possibly refuse our proposal.

We haven't cancelled our court date yet, as we're waiting to see what the conditions of consent are. Once they're satisfactory I'll have great pleasure in cancelling the court action.

I'm doing all the fun stuff now, picking our applicances and tap ware etc.
 
Bronte said:
Joanna,

Just want to clarify my understanding of your strategy...do you do the developments in a company structure as it is easier to source funding than if you were to use a trust structure. Then remaining properties not sold from the development (if any) are retained, but you transfer them into a trust structure?

If this is the case, wouldn't it be less expensive to start the development in a trust structure and avoid transfer costs later? Is it that difficult to source funding for your projects if utilising a trust structure?

Thanks for your comments, they are inspiring :)

Hi Bronte,

We do the developments in one company, and the building in another company, simply because we didn't know enough about trust structures when we did set ourselves up, and we didn't receive any advice to the contrary. From my discussions with my financiers and brokers, the funding would be more detailed and complicated and difficult within a trust structure.

We keep some properties from each development, and they are currently kept within the company to reduce the amount of cash we need to put into our developments (this means we have more cash to really push the construction side of things). Once this big one is finished then we will be moving everything we don't need into a trust structure (unforunately we can't do it any sooner).

You are correct in that it will be expensive to transfer the properties into a trust rather than starting the development in the trust, but what is done is done unfortunately, and we'll just have to wear the costs.
 
Hi JoannaK,

I have been a little ill lately and not able to post. Thanks for the update! I think that I will be much better off once I can speak to the people who will actually make the decision. I have completed a bit of "digging" and found that there has been another proposal "spoken about" within the same area. This is massive scale and a friend from out there beleives that I have been mixed up with this one!!! Arrrgghhhh, no wonder they don't want to speak to me!

I have the REA out there helping out so that is good but I have been busy at work and not well so haven't moved much. Outlining a timeline this weekend to ensure things get moving so that will help too.

Good luck with it all and be sure to keep updating!!! :)

Dos
 
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