For a smallish 3x1 house, would you go with an instantaneous gas hot water system or the traditional storage type? This is for an IP in QLD. Also, would the choice of hot water system affect the energy rating of the house?
Gas hot water - storage vs instantaneous?
- Thread starter HappyCamper
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Mmmm (c) none of the above. How about solar - there are still some govt. rebates around for this I think (??).
Yes, probably.
I've never looked into solar as I've always had the impression that they're still notoriously expensive. And for an IP, is it really worth it?
From some of the discussions I've had with neighbours that have gone solar HWS, the cost after the govt rebate was slightly less than going conventional. Check it out anyway. I haven't kept up with the changes they've been making in the rebate scheme.
Looks like you might be forced into gas anyway (if not solar):
http://www.dip.qld.gov.au/sustainable-housing/electric-hot-water-system-replacement.html
Instant hot water is the go I have it at my personal property and it’s great.
But as a plumber I would personally go with solar hot water.
Panels on roof and storage tank on the ground.
But as a plumber I would personally go with solar hot water.
Panels on roof and storage tank on the ground.
I agree with the above.
Heat pumps are the best, if installed with solar collection panels they are most economical way to heat water. Also in summer, you can utilise the evaporative coil in the system to duct into the home cool air.
A heat pump gains its energy from the surrounding air not the sun . what you seem to be describing are 2 different types of solar hot-water systems. can you explain you post please.
The cool air in summer is quite significant. My tenants love the heat pump, virtual air condtioning ,low costs and tremendous amount of hot water that can be produced.
Unlimited instantaneous hot water will only ever be used to its capacity rarely , unless you have 5 teenage girls with long hair.
The cheapest to run in Brisbane is closed loop solar but I don't know how often the booster would be needed in Sydney.
With govt subsidies you would be crazy not to go down this path. It gives you the edge when renting a place as well.
In Brisbane my solar closed loop is sometimes supplemented on cloudy day about 6 weeks a year costing around $40 /year for a family of 4 adults.
Not two different systems at all.
Utilisation of two systems in one. Solar heat panels are roof mounted as normal in a Solar only system, but why not make use of the suns energy also in a heat pump system. Through convection - heat is used to push water through the solar panel thrus giving extra free heating or boosting the heat of the water in the system, and therefor the compressor run time is greatly reduced and electricity costs are at a minimum.
Yes you are correct, a heat pump draws it's energy from the air. The more humid it is - the better the process of refrigeration. You can draw that very humid moist air from out of the roof space in the home and duct it into the heat pump. From the evaporative side of the system or cold side, the fan can then blow cool refrigerated air back through another duct and channeled into a room as a form of air conditioning.
The hot side or condenser side of the system will always be used to heat the water within the storage cylinder.
When heat pumps first came onto the market, one such maker - Siddon's Heat pumps (of Sidchrome Tools fame) manufactured a system just as I've described, but they no longer make them like this, as the market suggests people just want to heat the water and not worry about maximum gains from such a system, so they dropped all the add on's. I've seen one of their early systems in a home in Sydney's western suburbs (Lalor Park) to be exact, and was very impressed at how they put it all together in one unit. I started toying with a system on the very same design myself - but shelved it when kids were born. Might get back on it shortly, with the way electricity costs keep going up.
Here in the dark frozen north,
They still make and use heat pumps. Ground source heat pumps
you trench in a few hundred feet of pex pipe anything below 3 feet (freeze line) the deeper the better, or drop the pipe down the well hole next to your well pipe, and use the earth as a gazillion tonne heatsink, a 1 hp (746w) motor running both the compressor and circulator can produce enough heat for all the hotwater and building heat for a 5000sqft building
input 750W = output 45KW
Heat pump == amazing
would probably work more efficiently than air source in Aus too, if you can find a maker, the planet is just as good a heat sink for cooling, you pump heat in and I'll pull it out the other side
Its not nearly as expensive as it appears, to set up, again as long as you can find a maker
sorry my igloo is out of order for the summer
, there isnt much heat to pull from the air, 8 months of the year up to (down to?) 20[sup]o[/sup] below zero. They still make and use heat pumps. Ground source heat pumps
you trench in a few hundred feet of pex pipe anything below 3 feet (freeze line) the deeper the better, or drop the pipe down the well hole next to your well pipe, and use the earth as a gazillion tonne heatsink, a 1 hp (746w) motor running both the compressor and circulator can produce enough heat for all the hotwater and building heat for a 5000sqft building
input 750W = output 45KW
Heat pump == amazing
would probably work more efficiently than air source in Aus too, if you can find a maker, the planet is just as good a heat sink for cooling, you pump heat in and I'll pull it out the other side
Its not nearly as expensive as it appears, to set up, again as long as you can find a maker
A post I made from another subject on this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by garbage
Cost-wise, do you think inverter aircon heating is about on par with connected natural gas?
Inverter reverse cycle split systems are very economical. The system of using an inverter controller for the motor uses minimal power - it's all electronics, and it ramps up and down the motor that runs the compressor in the refrigeration circuit. The loads and current drawn off are low in comparison to standard motor controllers. Little often do people realise with these cooling/heating systems - they can be tweaked to obtain maximum efficiency by an Electrician or Fridge mechanic with the knowledge of inverters. Some inverters come with a serial port connection and with the correct software can be programmed by use of a laptop PC.
The most efficient way to heat water is also using the refrigeration circuit (as someone has already said) but it can be aided by using solar water panels or solar conductors on the high side of the refrigeration circuit.
In summer you can literally heat your water with the condenser in the form of a coil inside your hot water tank, and also cool the inside of your home by ducting the evaporative side into the house.
Refrigeration is and can be a great way to meet all the needs of heating and cooling your home.
Another way of heating your home, and this may sound out of reach to many, but it's one I really like.
The idea of using geo-thermal natural heating, and no you do not need to be living ontop of a volcano. The system is this - A single hole is drilled down into the earth (along way down) maybe 200 metres or more. Black poly pipe is sent to the bottom and returned back to the top (basically it's a big U) this is connected on one side to a make up tank, the other side is fitted throughout the internal boundary walls of the house in layers of coils until all the internal boundary walls are covered (between the brickwork and the gyprock) the poly pipe then is returned to join the other side of the poly pipe that came out of the hole in the ground. The theory is that the heat in the earth so far down will start convection of water in the pipe and push it up and around the poly pipe circuit. This is natural heating, no electricity, no pumps, nothing at all. There is enough energy in the heat from the depth of the earth to start the heating of the water and movement of the water un-aided.
This is done in parts of Europe and Canada, no reason why it can't be done here as well.
a single dwelling is drilled about 35m
a duplex about 55m
200m is the depth well we'd need for 11 unit apartment building,
all those sizes are much less if the ground water supply is good, and they are going to drill 2 holes and pull water out of one and put it back in the other open loop system
~100m each for the apartment building, 2x100m wells are a lot cheaper than 1x200m well
fuel bills for heat for a well insulated single dwelling are in the range 2-400/month,
for the large building add another 0
does not take long to pay off the cost of drilling the well and installing geothermal heat pump
especially if you already have a well for water
if you have a large enough block of land, you can ditch witch the pipe in only 3-4 feet down enough to give the neccessary pipe run to exchange heat, and that is hugely cheaper
a duplex about 55m
200m is the depth well we'd need for 11 unit apartment building,
all those sizes are much less if the ground water supply is good, and they are going to drill 2 holes and pull water out of one and put it back in the other open loop system
~100m each for the apartment building, 2x100m wells are a lot cheaper than 1x200m well
fuel bills for heat for a well insulated single dwelling are in the range 2-400/month,
for the large building add another 0
does not take long to pay off the cost of drilling the well and installing geothermal heat pump
especially if you already have a well for water
if you have a large enough block of land, you can ditch witch the pipe in only 3-4 feet down enough to give the neccessary pipe run to exchange heat, and that is hugely cheaper
Guys, don't quote me on any specific depths required. I just plucked a number out of thin air. The depth would need to be surveyed by a Geologist or someone with good knowledge of the land in which your home is built on.
Whatever the depth, it still is a viable solution to heating either water or walls in the home. Best of all - it costs nothing after the setup is payed back.
you were awful close but, I have the brochures from the driller and the refrig guys
this is Caldman's (neighbour and other local landlord's) building the little spigot at front left is the heat well for the whole thing, zoom out, this well is 120m, right in the middle of town, no issues
You wouldnt want do it yourself, the drill rig is substantial
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