Giving back tenant over 12 months rent.

I defer to your superior legal expertise, but how do you reconcile your position with S13 of the NSW Act which specifically addresses illegal dwellings and provides for rent abatement, and the two cases I cited - one in ACT and one in NSW - where awards of 100% rent refunds were made?

Edit: I acknowledge that it's not necessarily, nor even usually, the case that the tenant would be awarded a full rent refund, but the existence of a clause in the NSW agreement and two Tribunal cases suggest that it's at least a possibility.

I totally agree with 100% refunds. You might want to add Section 43 (2) of the Residential Tenancy Act 2010 which clearly states that the rent abates if the premises are unlawful. And then there's another Section...Section 219 of the Residential Tenancy Act (NSW)...this is there to protect the Act and Regulations just in case anyone decides to override the legislation. Read it and you will see what I am talking about. I am currently before the Full Bench of the Court of Appeal in NSW seeking the overturning of a District Court Judge who decided to not only override Section 43 and 13 and 49 for that matter, but she made a separate agreement (in court) which quashed the existing agreement the landlord and I had and made another one. In that, she said that I don't have to pay the rental arrears for 2 months but to start paying the rent from 1st April 2013 until we go back to the District Court for the hearing. I refused to accept that order. It was unlawful and went beyond the jurisdiction of the District Court. We were there for another matter and the Judges moral fibre got the better of her judgment when she decided to override the law and make agreements that Section 219 of the Act clearly states you can't.

From there I went to the Supreme Court where it was referred to the Court of Appeal where I confronted another would be moral crusader who said in essence that I must pay the rent regardless of what the law says. Well, didn't the **** hit the fan then. I got stuck into him and told His Honor that it's not a case of me not wanting to pay the rent but rather NSW Legislation that clearly states this in 3 Sections of the Act. His honors response ?...I don't care, you pay the rent. Well, I wasn't happy about this order was I so I lodged an appeal with the Full Bench of the Court of Appeal. Believe it or not, they too got stuck into me with the same old ****...why aren't you paying the landlord rent. Because your Honor the law states that he is not entitled to be paying the rent. Not surprisingly, I lost this appeal where Judges seem to think that the law can be broken, remarkably, for landlords and they should get rent regardless. My question? Why make those laws in the first place when you have a string of Judges overriding these laws ?...the matter is next scheduled before an appeal in the High Court of Australia. I cannot accept that a landlord should be paid anything in terms of rent when he it is a criminal offence under Environmental Planning Laws if you run illegal boarding houses. Secondly, all the rent and bond money is "Tax Free" they can't declare this money because the tax man will ask, where is this money coming from with no ABN etc. That's why the law is there to go after these rogue operators because while you and me pay our fair share of taxes, these blokes don't pay a cent because of greed. I would like to be in a position where I can rip of the tax man too but I don't or wont. Why are the Judges so protective of a rogue landlord who rips of the Council with DA fees and applications etc not to mention the tax man and then wants tax free rent and bond monies as well? Those judges no doubt have investment properties somewhere and have been bitten by unscrupulous tenants.

In this case, I found out the place was illegal, I warned him to sever the lease and pay me reasonable relocation expenses and call it quits. He told me to go and jump. I then lodged a complaint with the Council and then filed an application with the CTTT to make him sever the lease and pay me compensation for his misdeeds. why should I have to go to yet another expense of moving out shortly after I just moved in if he is the one doing the several wrong things at once and rolling over with joy at all the cash his making and also laughing at us who work and pay our taxes. No sir...High Court here I come !!!!!
 
psoli,
How do you know the landlord is not paying taxes on the rent?

You knew the conditions of the rental when you moved in? I assume the rent and conditions were acceptable?

When you found out that you could receive all the rent money back, that was when it wasn't acceptable any longer?

Are your legal fees being funded by yourself, or legal aid (or equivalent)
 
No sir...High Court here I come !!!!!

So basically you've had more than a few judges disagree with your legal interpretation, and I'm sure they have at least some sound legal reasoning in their decisions...

...I've also given you at least one other legal opinion on that particular scenario, and how the law of equity can modify the application of the legislation as read...

...and instead you've decided to have an emotional rant and not comprehend that you might be wrong.
 
Totally an interesting read considering that NSW courts refused to go over the the Building Licensing legislation on the grounds that it was regulated by the OFT.
 
Secondly, all the rent and bond money is "Tax Free" they can't declare this money because the tax man will ask, where is this money coming from with no ABN etc.
That's nonsense; there's no need for an ABN simply to accept rent.
I found out the place was illegal, I warned him to sever the lease and pay me reasonable relocation expenses and call it quits. He told me to go and jump.
Yeah, I'm sorry, but I'm not feeling your pain. I'd be a lot more sympathetic if your response, when finding out the place was illegal, was to immediately move out and lodge a claim at Tribunal for return of rent paid and moving expenses. That would be teaching rogue operators a lesson.

But the way you're going about it, you just look like a squatter who's trying to take advantage of the situation, which is - I suspect - why the Courts have been so unsympathetic. The landlord is acting illegally, but so are you in staying there once you know it's illegal.

Your conduct violates the "clean hands" doctrine. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_hands) Courts are extremely reluctant to help people who come to them with unclean hands.
 
Well said Mr Fabulous well said...unfortunately, a lot of people hide behind this and seek to blame others for their misdeeds.
 
Rent reductions are 100% refundable if the premises they leased were unlawful. Section 49 of the Residential Tenancy Act 2010 clearly states that the landlord must ensure that at the time he entered into a Residential Tenancy Agreement the premises did not have a legal impediment....and that this shall apply to the whole term of the tenancy.
 
I am representing myself costing me nothing. I also have the Sydney Morning Herald interested hopefully they will do the story soon I'd say after the High Court challenge.
 
Why don't you go and say this to the poor family member who may have to one day bury their dead student child after being cooked to death when a fire broke out in one of these illegal boarding houses ???
 
Hey purp...since it's nonsense, what would be the source of his income then ?..and read my responses properly...i did say ABN...etc...
 
I am representing myself costing me nothing.
Costing taxpayers plenty, though. :rolleyes:
Why don't you go and say this to the poor family member who may have to one day bury their dead student child after being cooked to death when a fire broke out in one of these illegal boarding houses ???
If you'd moved out, I'd be 100% on your side. The fact that you're continuing to squat there suggests that your concern is not safety.

The landlord acted illegally in entering into a lease for you to rent the premises. You are acting illegally in continuing to live there, knowing that living there in such conditions is unlawful.

I've said it as plainly as I can: your conduct significantly violates the clean hands doctrine, and it's a very, very bad idea to turn up to a Court with unclean hands. The judge will wipe the floor with you.
what would be the source of his income then ?..and read my responses properly...i did say ABN...etc...
I know you said ABN, and I said that you don't need an ABN. The source of his income would be rent.
 
Costing taxpayers plenty, though. :rolleyes:

If you'd moved out, I'd be 100% on your side. The fact that you're continuing to squat there suggests that your concern is not safety.

The landlord acted illegally in entering into a lease for you to rent the premises. You are acting illegally in continuing to live there, knowing that living there in such conditions is unlawful.

I've said it as plainly as I can: your conduct significantly violates the clean hands doctrine, and it's a very, very bad idea to turn up to a Court with unclean hands. The judge will wipe the floor with you.

I know you said ABN, and I said that you don't need an ABN. The source of his income would be rent.

Well said Perp
 
Hey purp, I walked in with clean hands and a clean shirt and acted in good faith and paid him what he wanted. However, his hands were dirty and in fact he had dirt right up to his eyeballs. But you know what really gets up my nostrils ....the fact that nothing happens, lets target and condemn the bloke who walked in in good faith and not worry about the rogue operator who has had dirty hands for years until off course something happens and several families have to bury their young children because of some criminal, remember it is a crime to illegally operate a boarding house, who was more interested in making an illegal buck which resulted in poor old unsuspecting students walking and living in a death trap. There has to be a reason why the LAW......L.A.W states the ramifications. The courts have previously whacked 4 other rogue landlords over their illegal behavior...yet some put all this aside and targets the tenant who acted in good faith. ...I will stay there until he does the right thing by not only to his tenants but the tax payer as well. If I was to go, then it's business as usual isn't it until something happens and funerals are on the agenda. I am doing nothing wrong. On the other hand, he is committing a criminal offence by operating the boarding house, he is committing a criminal offence by cheating the tax payers out of millions of undeclared income and he is the one committing criminal acts of deception with Council Investigators..

And by the way, what I am doing is 100% lawful by way of Legislation and by way of 4 previous Tribunal precedents....
 
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and to generate rental income, wouldn't you need to declare to the Tax Department and by having it Registered with the Office of Fair Trading to obtain a "Registered Business Certificate?" so that a proper record of this source of "rental income?" can be properly documented ?...or are you just talking from the sky that the "black money" he gets he just washes the money through the tax department? .. but then again, it's right and lawful what he's doing huh ?...not giving rent receipts and not lodging bond monies with the Bond Board...yes, right...he's still doing the right thing...
 
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and just one other thing I forgot to mention with all your logical speeches of late...read what the definition of "squatter" is...yes, that's right...a squatter is a person who has no legal connection with any premises whatsoever. A squatter invades another person's premises without the owners consent or approval, usually an abandoned premises, for the purposes of occupying and deliberately living on those premises without any consent from the owner. what's all of us less educated people to understand is that it didn't matter that I had a signed "Residential Tenancy Lease" between the landlord and myself. It didn't matte that the landlord gave me permission to occupy his premises legally by virtue of a "Contract" for value, remember I did pay a $1,000 bond and 4 weeks rent until I discovered his illegal boarding house. By virtue of the signed Residential Tenancy Agreement we both signed, he becomes responsible to comply with tenancy laws. Ohhh yes, I keep forgetting...the landlord did nothing wrong...He can operate the building without a licence, he can pocket black money from rent and bonds not giving receipts...he can lie to the Council and to the Tax Man...On the other hand, I am the bad person, I am the squatter, I am the rip off bloke, I am the one who has done everything wrong.
 
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The one who's costing tax payers money is that rogue landlord...i am just a poor old bloke who's trying to stop him through the courts...
 
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Ah, the irony...

1. I'm female.

2. I operate a fully licensed, legal, insured, well-operated, and safe student accommodation.

3. I am probably the most pro-tenant contributor to this thread, and often drive the other landlords on this forum up the wall with my insistence that we - landlords - have an obligation to do things "to the letter of the law". In no way do I condone the landlord's behaviour, and that's quite clear in this thread. I just think that what you are trying to do in "retaliation" is going to prejudice your standing in Court and lose you money. I'm sorry that you don't want to hear that. If you'd moved out when you found out the place was illegal, I'd be 100% with you. If it's a "death trap", and this is all about safety and not about having a free place to live, why are you still there?

4. I know what a precedent is; I gave you the 3 cases that you've since cited back at other thread contributors.

5. Please do tell us when you're going to Court; I will bring popcorn. :)
 
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