Has anyone obtained stormwater access from neighbour?

Discussion in 'Adding Value' started by beachgurl, 11th Jun, 2015.

  1. beachgurl

    beachgurl Member

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    I have a toe on a property in Brisbane that is subdivideable. However it is necessary to tap into the stormwater for the additional lot by entering the neighbour's property.

    For those who have been successful with this, did you personally ask the neighbour or did you have someone else ask/contact the neighbour on your behalf? Did legal docs have to be drawn up with the neighbour signing off the permission for access prior to filing a DA at council?
     
  2. mflying

    mflying Property Developer

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    your wording of "tapping" is important.

    Is that already Stormwater pipe running @ neighbors property?

    if yes,

    is that registered as stormrwater easement on their title?
    If yes,
    You will need to engage accredited plumber to tap in your stromwater discharge pipe.


    If NO,

    You will need to contact owners, give them proposed plans for running a pipe thru their property.

    They may ask for money
    They may refuse it

    in any case, they will need to register easement on their title.


    IF they refuse it,

    You will have two option,

    Go thru relevant court (Expensive and time consuming)
    design an alternative stromwater dischrage plans
     
  3. beachgurl

    beachgurl Member

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    There is a stormwater pipe already on their property, but not running from this one - the pipe runs along the far side of their block and I would require an easement perpendicular to that, to connect it from this block.
     
  4. mflying

    mflying Property Developer

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    in that case,

    get hydraulic engineers plans, and approach neighbor directly.

    if your lot is beneficiary to easement pipe on their block, you plumber can tap in that pipe.
     
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  5. jsoe

    jsoe curious and keen to learn

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    I called the REA and asked nicely (found out online - for rent ad for that neighbour). REA asked the owner, who told the tenants to cooperate. My plumbers and engineers went to their backyard with minimal distruption to access the stormwater manhole and did their things. Goodluck.
     
  6. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates ...and people wonder why?

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    Your easement would need to cover the entire run of the stormwater pipe. If you don't have an easement over the whole line, then it can be dug up and your line goes nowhere.

    AFAIK stormwater drainage is not a licensed trade - doesn't need a plumber or tradie to do it.

    A stormwater pipe within your own lot (or the neighbour's stormwater pipe in their lot does not require an easement) as it is neither benefitting nor burdening any other property but their own. However, if the neighbour wants to use it, then the easement must cover the entire length.
     
  7. Rustymutt

    Rustymutt Rustymutt

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    Brisbane stormwater connection via a neighbouring property

    For Brisbane a stormwater connection via a neighbouring property requires the following documentation:

    1. BCC Property owners consent or refusal - CC10835.

    http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/cc10835_property_owners_consent_or_refusal.pdf

    The neighbours can agree or refuse permission.

    2. A stormwater sketch plan. This plan needs to accompany the consent form and be sighted and signed by the neighbour.

    DRW Consulting will do a professional sketch plan up for around $220. It will show the proposed line so you can show the neighbours. Phone 3341 1444.

    (If you gain consent attach 1 and 2 above to your development application as proof of consent for council).

    3. Attach an information sheet to the sketch plan for the neighbour

    Download under ''Lawful point of discharge

    http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/laws...ormwater-pollution-runoff-drainage-complaints

    Easement question (BCC)
    Council would likely regard the line as a ''private line''.

    Therefore, as far as I am aware, an easement in favour of Brisbane city council is only required where the stormwater line is designed to service more than 3 lots.

    The relevant design standard is BSD8111 see details in the attached.

    Connecting to council lines
    If you wish to connect to a council line or gully pit you will also require a permit.
    See http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/laws-permits/laws-permits-businesses/work-roads-footways'

    Best to call council and confirm the above information.
    Good luck

    RM
     

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    Last edited: 12th Jun, 2015
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  8. LJW

    LJW Member

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    I second the advice provided by RustyMutt. You may not need an easement over this stormwater pipe if the upstream catchment (your property) is only 2 lots.

    I have personally approached the adjoining neighbours (for sewer/stormwater consent) for a lot of clients over the years. I would say the majority of neighbours refuse consent (especially if they know their refusal will stop the subdivision going ahead). Unfortunately, with rubble pits no longer supported in Brisbane as a lawful point of discharge for subdivision projects, these downstream neighbours can basically hold a project to ransom. I have had clients pay $80k+ before to the neighbours just for their consent to construct a pipe through their backyard.

    As RustyMutt said, you will need to get them to sign CC10835 and it is also helpful to get an RPEQ to prepare a sketch plan to accompany this. If it's a stormwater consent, I also send a brief letter outlining the benefits of this pipe to the neighbours (i.e. reducing any overland flow impacts etc). FYI, just be aware that form CC10835 is not legally binding so the neighbour can revoke this written consent at any time (which we have seen happen previously, costing our clients a lot of money). My advice would be to either construct the pipe as soon as you have received written consent from the neighbour (and before they change their mind), or get a legal agreement prepared.
     
  9. wylie

    wylie Member

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    I'm curious to know if rubble pits are still allowed when the block is not being subdivided. We had one put in with BCC blessing a few years ago where our storm water pipes were fully blocked with earth. I was told recently that rubble pits were no longer allowed, but know someone who was told this was a solution for their renovation (no subdivision involved and no stormwater system to hook into).

    I was confused, but maybe the magic word is "subdivision"? With no subvidision and just a renovation (lift and shift and build under) it seems a rubble pit is still allowed?
     
  10. LJW

    LJW Member

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    Yeh exactly. If you have an existing lot/house (which slopes away from the street), Council will ask that you seek consent from a downstream neighbour first, but will allow you to look at an alternative measure (i.e rubble pit) if the neighbour says no.

    Liam
     
  11. RPI

    RPI Member

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    No Easement required. Have had it cost from a carton of beer to $5k for little 1 into 2 subdivisions.
     
  12. Rustymutt

    Rustymutt Rustymutt

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    use of soakage systems and subdivision in brisbane

    Regarding post by Wylie,

    My understanding is that soakage systems can be used for existing houses in Brisbane for example where you need to capture storm or roofwater from a new renovation. However, soakage systems cannot be used for new (residential) subdivision.

    For subdivision approval (eg. splitter blocks etc), you need to demonstrate that you can drain to council drainage assets such as the kerb, gully pit or an existing council stormwater line. You also cannot connect to existing foulwater lines or old private drainage lines which exist on some properties.

    In terms of soakage systems, the new provisions for stormwater drainage in the Brisbane area are outlined in the infrastructure planning scheme policy under the Brisbane City Plan 2014. See Chapter 7.

    http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/plan...document/schedule-6/infrastructure-design-psp

    Under this policy, the requirements for Lawful point of discharge (LPD) for residential and other development are set out under 7.6.1.

    Overall, it states that soakage systems (eg. absorption trenches, rubble pits) may only be used as a Lawful point of discharge for a single dwelling house (see 7.6.8).

    My reading of the policy is that a residential subdivision will not be approved if you dont obtain permission from neighbours for a lawful point of discharge.

    The reference to the single dwelling seems to infer that you can only use soakage systems for an existing dwelling (eg roof water from renovations) where you were unable to obtain a lawful point of discharge by other means.

    You might need to get some clarification from council but that's how i interpret the policy.

    Pump systems etc, can only be used for unit, industrial and commercial development and buildings.

    One good point is that council has now added a provision (see 7.6.5) so that developers and builders are to now provide connection points so upstream properties can drain to a LPD. This will avoid all this hassle with seeking permission from downstream owners.

    Something that should have been done years ago as probably half of houses in Brisbane are built on rear sloping lots.

    RM
     
    Last edited: 20th Jun, 2015
  13. gaiusb

    gaiusb Member

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    Yep I can confirm the below from experience:

    If subdividing, council won't allow rubble/soakage pits as per their policy. They'll make you get a connection to the rear neighbour's stormwater line etc.

    If not subdividing and just building, the certifier could permit rubble/soakage pits where it's not possible to run the roofwater to the street. If the roof is higher than the road then you may be able to seal and charge the line to the street in lieu of the rubble pit. This is quite practical on a splitter lot as you are not subdividing, just splitting the title.