Has property changed your outlook towards money?

In the years BP (Before Property) I knew exactly how much I was financially worth. Indeed my assessment was to the nearest 0.1% of portfolio value.

Twice a year I'd compile a statement of assets (there being no liabilities then!). I'd look at how much was in bank accounts, tallied up managed funds, checked share holdings etc. Contrary to obsessive budgeters, I wasn't diligent in recording income (beyond ATO requirements) or expenditure, but knew it was a tight ship with limited scope for economies.

This habit of compiling a six monthly statement remains today (AP). I can (and do) make educated assessments of the portfolio's worth. However since it included IPs (in areas with recent capital gain) my estimates are only guesses. I'd be doing well to assess values within 10%. 10% is a substantial amount, and equivalent to current annual expenditure. Even if I got a qualified valuer, his assessment would still be no better than 2-5%, which is still sizeable.

Thus money has gone from something that can be calculated to the nearest cent to a concept that's more fuzzy and less calculable.

This 'fuzzy money' concept gives rise to several attitudinal shifts:

1. The first is that money is just an idea, as mentioned in Kiyosaki's books. If you convince someone else that A is worth $A+B then you've 'created' wealth, even if no subdivision or renovation involved. If you can get a valuer and his bank to concur, then you can leverage off this increase to get finance.

2. The second affects attitudes towards expenditure. In particular, a period of strong asset growth may make one a less cautious spender. An extra discretionary expenditure of (say) $500 is tiny compared to the large error margin in net worth calculations.

Even a year's diligent saving looks small, so interest in saving (as opposed to using debt) declines. Those households who got into debt with the DVD, plasma, home theatre, new car since they felt wealthy after their home jumped $200, 000 in value is a popular manifestation of this tendency. Amongst the people here, the 'living off equity' concept has some parallels.

I have no experience of 1. except passively where an improvement to a neighbouring (and adjoining) IP and its recent sale for a high price may have a positive effect on mine. In relation to 2. there have been no discernible changes to expenditure. However some attitudes have changed slightly and later actions (eg more liberal expenditure and less saving) may reflect this.

Peter
 
Hi Peter

Great idea for a thread.

In short, yes, my investing (property and shares) has changed the way I view money and wealth.

We are very conscious of thinking like a wealthy person and all that that might mean now as opposed to thinking like a poor person.

In fact, it is a concept that we discuss regularly within the office as a teaching tool...even if the others are not wealthy yet, merely knowing that there is a difference in the way that the poor and wealthy people think is a HUGE step forward.

Dale
 
  • Like
Reactions: Les
G'day Peter,
Has property changed your outlook towards money?
Hell, Yes !!
It has been such a liberating feeling to understand that the growth in our holdings has blown away the concerns I had only 6 years ago. At that time, I was concerned that Mrs. Les and I would be forced to spend our later years attempting to make sense (and a "living" :eek: ) out of a pension.

I was fortunate enough, though, that Bne "held off" in its growth until I got my head together. The growth that followed AFTER we bought our first 3(after 10+ years in the doldrums) has been astounding. Fortunately, I'd realised that I needed to DO SOMETHING - and IP's seemed the right choice. So we started out buying 2, then another, then another ......... And all of them have at least doubled in value from 2001 - 2004 (including the PPOR).

For me, it's been the dawning (understanding and acceptance) of a "critical mass" situation - where, once a project gets big enough, it becomes "self-sustaining".


And, the biggie for me - when I see my small portfolio growing at a faster rate (even in slow growth times), than my reasonably well-paid job brings in, I know I'm getting close to that self-sustainable situation. And MAN that feels good !!!

Can I say it again????

Has property changed your outlook towards money?
Hell, Yes !! :D

Regards,
 
Les said:
Has property changed your outlook towards money?

Of course it has. I realised that it's not about working hard but working smart. And that making money doesn't just involve climbing the corporate ladder. I don't like work anyway, and property has given me an alternative.

It's changed the way I make money, the sources that I concentrate on, and given me a lot more freedom (mainly because I don't worry about my job anymore).
Alex
 
I found at the start, that property did not change my attitude towards money, because the scale of the operation did not change anything in our family's day-to-day lifestyle and spending habits.

As the numbers started to crank up, it did start to change our lifestyle.

Living in a small house, in a pretty average area, well well below our means, financially felt like being dragged back by some huge catapult. At that stage only the wife and I could see the catapult. All of our rellies and friends saw us just standing there. They were blind to the catapult.

When we decided to cut the restraining ropes and let the catapult fling us forward, no-one quite understood how we suddenly jumped from point A to point Z.

The property side of things now dwarfs our day to day living style. We are still modest in our lifestyle compared to our new neighbours. New catapults have been put in place, which after our interview, are now no longer invisible.

As Dale pointed out, thinking like a wealthy person is where it is at. Being constantly surrounded by wealthy looking people who think like poor people is very constraining.

With the Australian ethos of being very modest and shy when revealing financial matters and thinking, for fear of the "tall poppy syndrome" and being called a show-off, it's frustrating when you encounter someone with a wealthy mindset, but they are too quiet to actually learn from, or you find out too late at a party that they had something valuable to contribute.
 
Yes, property has changed my outlook towards money.

I am no longer worried about running out of money or not being able to pay the bills should I lose my job for example. It is a nice liberating feeling well worth the sacrifices. :)

I spend a little bit more than I used to, but still much less than what I earn. So my investments keep growing every year, providing me with more choices about what to do with my time.

Cheers,
 
Yes. Strangely, I put more pressure on myself to attain freedom.... :confused:

That is not good is it?

Because I have some knowledge I want to put it into practice. I pressure myself to reach goals that are a bit beyond me at the moment and am disappointed that I haven't achieved more with the property portfolio I aspired to.

I seriously thought in my situation it would be possible to buy my 2nd property within a year of my 1st.... I am disappointed that I cannot manage this yet. In fact I am having difficulty with the one.... I have taken on a bit much I only realise in retrospect. So I am chagrined at my naievity in getting all fired up in 2004 thinking I can make a second happen so fast. Stupid!

{maybe this is why I thought a 'young investors' network would be good, maybe there are others feeling like me?}

Granted through my learning I have achieved more. Yet, I am paradoxically more disappointed with myself for not having gotten even further.....

When you know better you want to DO better.
 
wish-ga said:
Yes. Strangely, I put more pressure on myself to attain freedom.... :confused:

That is not good is it?

Because I have some knowledge I want to put it into practice. I pressure myself to reach goals that are a bit beyond me at the moment and am disappointed that I haven't achieved more with the property portfolio I aspired to.

I seriously thought in my situation it would be possible to buy my 2nd property within a year of my 1st.... I am disappointed that I cannot manage this yet. In fact I am having difficulty with the one.... I have taken on a bit much I only realise in retrospect. So I am chagrined at my naievity in getting all fired up in 2004 thinking I can make a second happen so fast. Stupid!

{maybe this is why I thought a 'young investors' network would be good, maybe there are others feeling like me?}

Granted through my learning I have achieved more. Yet, I am paradoxically more disappointed with myself for not having gotten even further.....

When you know better you want to DO better.


Hi Wishga,

While I understand seeing/hearing about all the success others have had can be frustrating to try and achieve the same, DON'T feel disappointed in yourself!! You are far ahead of the flock! It think alot of us "late starters" have this mentality, but you have to remember that alot of successful investors here may have only started just before the last boom, making it much easier to acquire more and more as their equity increased without them having to do much. It's not so easy in this market! Us late bloomers can only learn from what they've done, acquire as much as we can now, and wait for the next boom to come along to put us just in the same position as they are now!!

I'm part of this 'young investors' network, and have felt nothing less than frustrated trying to move forward in a flat market with ridiculously low yields that make it nealry impossible to keep building our portfolio, but we're still looking, and I know we'll find one! And then another! It's already happened in this difficult market, so I have full on faith it will happen again, and again!

Keep on going, and remember not to lose faith in what you know you can do! :)

Cheers,
Jen
 
Last edited:
Has property Changed your outlook towards Money?



Definitely, but MORE so, this Forum and some of the great people posting here has changed and increased my knowledge about investing as a whole.

The axioms that
“Money begets Money”
and
“You don’t have to be Rich to Invest, but you have to Invest to become Rich”
are now much clearer.

We have also been lucky to catch the Perth CG wave with IP’s bought before the recent boom.

I recall a period of six months here that saw CG across our portfolio achieve double our annual income from wages, we could "never" have saved that much from an after tax wage (brings me back to the "You don’t have to be Rich to Invest, but you have to Invest to become Rich" comment).

It seems that everything can snowball and as you continue along you gather more size and speed; or as was expressed here- we can have more glasses out collecting water.;)

Dazzling’s right as well with his comment about many people who have achieved wealth or also have a wealth mindset not being ready to talk about it (is that part of the wealth mindset or just part of the answer to many posts here about “do you tell your friends about your investments"?), luckily we have this forum where many people are happy to impart their knowledge (though it sometimes takes a bit for me to grasp some of the concepts and apply them).
 
Has it ever.

Property and property investing and shuffling money around has changed my world... my attitude, my thinking, my self esteem, my relationships, my perceptions...

I cannot begin to describe the affect of meeting amazing, wonderful people who bother to give me the time of day and share with me their story(s) and assist me in the utilisation of money as a tool to achieve further....

The thing is, I started out just trying to learn a little about contributing our financial independence...and learnt a lot about life.

Money is a catalyst for me now, ...prior to property it was nothing, had never had it, certainly wasn't a materialistic person, but used it to drink and party too much, and did a fair bit of travelling...now I do constructive things with my money and my life.
I like what I do with money now, I love property investing and I love this weird old journey that I've found myself on.:)

Stay tuned....
 
alexlee said:
Of course it has. I realised that it's not about working hard but working smart. And that making money doesn't just involve climbing the corporate ladder. I don't like work anyway, and property has given me an alternative.

It's changed the way I make money, the sources that I concentrate on, and given me a lot more freedom (mainly because I don't worry about my job anymore).
Alex

Agreed, however I'm going to throw a curler here :)

For me I'm totally into investing in property for the long term for a few reasons: its an ineffecient market, you can buy below market value, add value etc. I also love how you do your research buy and then kind of sit back and you don't really have to actively manage it if you have a rental manager.

But I also find that a job takes up a big part of your day and its something you should really enjoy true if you invest well you can retire say mid thirties but its 10 years of having a pretty mediocre life.

I started changing my thinking recently and concerntrated on my career a bit more than investing. I know I'll always invest (especially for the long term and I"m glad a read heaps of books and bought investment properties and will probably continue to do so).

But I realise with a career in finance (whichs is what I really enjoy) you can earn big bucks $200K-$300K salaries in Syd and the work is really simulating and challenging.

For me the dream is to have one of these jobs and invest in the spare time (just gear into things buying them at market value and hopefully after 15 years I have an option to retire while still having the option to retain a great career).

Having said that though I'll be the first to say that people earning big bucks in the finance industry don't have their finances sorted and if they get fired they are screwed after 2 months. However I think it would be fantastic to earn that kind of money, love your job and have a little investment portfolio in thebackground working for you as well.

I get excited thinking about all the great waterfront manions and negatively geared growth properties I could buy instead of high yeilding studios if I earnt that kind of money, all along getting paid well for doing what I love.
 
If you have job you enjoy, go for it. I don't like working period, and certainly not at what I'm doing now. But that's just me, though I suspect it's most of the population.
Alex
 
sonic said:
Agreed, however I'm going to throw a curler here :)

For me I'm totally into investing in property for the long term for a few reasons: its an ineffecient market, you can buy below market value, add value etc. I also love how you do your research buy and then kind of sit back and you don't really have to actively manage it if you have a rental manager.
edited
I started changing my thinking recently and concerntrated on my career a bit more than investing. edited

For me the dream is to have one of these jobs and invest in the spare time (just gear into things buying them at market value and hopefully after 15 years I have an option to retire while still having the option to retain a great career).

edited
I get excited thinking about all the great waterfront manions and negatively geared growth properties I could buy instead of high yeilding studios if I earnt that kind of money, all along getting paid well for doing what I love.



Interesting how another investors view can be so different to one's own.

Sonic and I both love to invest but think quite differently.

I am slowly gaining a wealthy person's mindset, although i am not wealthy at this stage or even perfectly comfortable really.

Working at a job though Does Not appeal to me at all though. That is just me.:)
I have already worked at a job for 33 years and that is quite enough thank you. I am one of those late bloomer/ starters referred to a bit earlier in this thread.
What is most valuable to me is my independence and running my own race.

The most exciting moment so far on my investing journey was when I realised that by leveraging into RE, I was gaining equity in my investments quicker than I could gain $$$ by working for my boss.

From that moment onwards, I was hooked. :D I think that was the beginning for me of thinking more like a wealthy person.

I am very comfortable now knowing that even if my RE investments perform at a 3% growth rate annually, I am actually gaining equity, and a reasonable amount too. This sure beats personal exertion for me.
This is only possible because of neutral gearing and leverage.

Nice to hear people's experience about attitudes to money. It is probably one of the most important factors in success I think.
 
Certainly has...

Where once $100K was viewed as a years worth of hard slog and an awful lot of money, now it is seen as insufficient money down as 20% on my next IP...

Suddenly what was once a fortune doesn't even cut it as a deposit. Or maybe that's just a product of the Sydney property market where it does take a fortune just to muster up a deposit.

Sigh,

Michael.
 
GIDDO said:
Working at a job though Does Not appeal to me at all though. That is just me.:)
....
What is most valuable to me is my independence and running my own race.

I guess what is important, is to know what you are going to do when you "get there" - i.e. what your "own race" is going to be.

Many of the wealthy (all?) continue to work (usually their business) until the day they die. Something Peter Spann said in one of his seminars sticks in my mind - "Retirement is a middle class dream" :)

Cheers,

The Y-man
 
Hi Folks
HELL YES! for me too.:)
We both left our jobs five years ago to embark on this journey down the Property Investment road. Back when we first jumped out of the "rat race" there were a few friends and family who were just waiting for us to fall over(financially that is) and come crawling back into the workforce. We have faced up to a number of hurdles and have been challenged on many fronts in regard to many aspects of investing and we are still here and still loving it.
In our other life we were governed by the lack of money and now in our new life we are only governed by our imaginations and Time( My number one factor in investing"how long till I get my money back?).
The real clincher for me was when I read something that Robert Kyosaki said " How many days/months/years wealthy are You?" and I believe when we came to terms with and fully understood that concept and felt comfortable with the answer and could still sleep at night then a brave new world emerged for the taking.:)
After all the worst thing that can happen if we fail is that we would have to go back to work:eek: "You can take my stuff but ya can't take my Knowledge!"
Simon
Life is an experience, so experience it!(I said that:) you can quote me if you like)
 
Back
Top