How are the socioecominic classes measured

Hi all,

Assuming an age range between 35 and 55, can someone tell me at what financial point does one move from lower socioeconomic class to middle class and then onto wealthy?

How / can this be measured?
 
Hi all,

Assuming an age range between 35 and 55, can someone tell me at what financial point does one move from lower socioeconomic class to middle class and then onto wealthy?

How / can this be measured?

How long is a piece of string?

What story do you want the stats to tell?

99% of the media and nearly that proportion of research academics equate 'high income' with 'rich' which is sloppy. Income and wealth, though both concern money, are quite different things and the relationship between them is not straightforward.

But since nearly everyone equates 'rich' with 'high income', let's talk about income, which is often taken to mean taxable income as people report to the ATO each year.

Once you get away from ordinary PAYE workers to businesspeople and investors, taxable income means bugger-all.

Eg There have been times when my taxable income has been low (ie low enough to qualify as a low income earner and get the government's low income tax offset) purely due to depreciation on IPs. Another time my taxable income was high due to a one-off capital gain from a property sale. We're talking an income difference of over 3:1 yet my address, living standard, attitudes, educational level etc remained unchanged.

Investors might be 10-20% of the population, business owners maybe a similar proportion, so for 60-80% of the population the taxable income stats might be accurate enough for conclusions to be drawn. But they're not going to be very complete, with the inaccuracy increasing the more you get away from the typical PAYE earner with few investments.

Having dealt with income there's a few other definitions we need to clear up, eg wealth.

I personally think that wealth is related to financial independence, ie being able to support yourself at from your investments if you wish to. Given normal rates of return this requires an unencumbered asset base of at least 20 times annual expenditure, maybe more for safety.

But what if you live a modest life on $20k pa coming from $600k assets? You're financially independent but that level of income implies an expenditure more in common with unemployed people or age pensioners (the former at least considered at the bottom of the socio-economic heap) than a 'wealthy person'. Hence financially independence does not always translate into 'wealth' or 'high socio-economic'. But does it really matter if you're happy?

Conversely there's those on very high incomes, top jobs, MBAs, houses in the best suburbs who you'd naturally say were high socio-economic. But if they spend it all they're certainly not wealthy.

The bulk of most Australian's wealth is in their own homes. But this is very very middle class.

People at the bottom wealth end generally don't own their own homes. Therefore only a small proportion of what little assets they have is in their own home.

Moving to about the middle 60% has the majority of people's wealth in their own homes. This provides a roof over their head but doesn't help with the 70-80% of living costs that aren't to do with housing - thus they are NOT financially independent. And if they're wealthy it's a very unbalanced form of wealth, ie a $2m house in Brighton but little else to speak of.

Most people at the top wealth end also own their own home. But it accounts for a diminishing proportion of wealth, because they will have substantial equity in businesses and/or investments.

Hence it's a sort of bell curve, with middle wealth (but not financially independent) people having most of their wealth in their own home but with both the lower and top ends only having a minority of their wealth in their own home (former as they don't have one, latter as they have bigger assets elsewhere).

The trick with property invesment for young people starting is to move straight from the bottom end to the top end (in terms of structure, the actual dollars will follow) without going through the middle, since we know that a PPOR mortgage is so crippling that most people in the middle stay stuck there, with some putting any spare money into 'trading up' their PPOR, which makes them no more financially independent. A trap!

While you hear about 'poverty traps' due to the interaction between the tax system the social security system and wages, you don't hear so much about this middle class trap (except from some hippies), even though I think this is equally real. Those who have bought IPs before buying their own home have avoided this trap, with a 'rich-type' structure from the start (and when the PPOR comes it's only one of several properties so forms an acceptably low proportion of assets).

We've covered the economic, what about the socio bit?

Well again it's a generalisation, ie high socio-economic mean high income people with degrees who don't get their hands dirty living in nice houses. But what about the undegreed skimpy-watching forklift operator in a mining settlement on $100k pa - where do they fit into the socio-economic spectrum? Or the gallery-going doctors daughter arts PhD who does waitressing at $15ph while they write their book? Again it's not defined and these hyphenated concepts are shorthand at best.

So to answer the question, it cannot be measured unless there are tighter definitions and you know what you really want to know and why it's important.

Peter
 
Good question WBG, we seem to use socio-economic status as a measurement a lot, but what does it mean?

The ABS dosn't measure SE status at all, they use socio-economic disadvantage and advantage as a measurement which are based on where you live from census postcodes, with urban areas having a higher socio-economic advantage and remote areas with the lowest - income didn't seem to come into it at all.

I did a quick google search and found this research paper which goes into socio-economic indicators quite deeply (very wordy and academic)...http://www.acer.edu.au/documents/LSAY_techrep14.pdf

It suggests that socio-economic status is linked to the level of education you have attained the type of job you have ie white collar or blue collar, and the social attitudes you have learned. Again, income dosn't seem to be a big indicator at all, which would explain why a skimpy-watching truck driver in Kalgoorlie might be on a high income, but still of a lower socio-economic class due to his/her lack of education, social attitudes (can you imagine this bloke at the theatre?) and lower prospects of maintaining a high income (during a recession for example or if no longer able to work) and where they live.
 
Hi all,

Assuming an age range between 35 and 55, can someone tell me at what financial point does one move from lower socioeconomic class to middle class and then onto wealthy?

How / can this be measured?

They move at the same point as when they change their thinking!

Same as everyone does.

There is no other point thats equal to gauge it from as we are all different, with different needs, different wants and as Spides (btw good to see you back spides) has correctly pointed out different personal definitions.

Hope this helps.
 
Hi all,

Assuming an age range between 35 and 55, can someone tell me at what financial point does one move from lower socioeconomic class to middle class and then onto wealthy?

How / can this be measured?

When you move from DUFF to CROWNIES, then Single Malt Whisky. Served in a glass.
Next?
 
Hi all,

Assuming an age range between 35 and 55, can someone tell me at what financial point does one move from lower socioeconomic class to middle class and then onto wealthy?

How / can this be measured?

You can't measure them all that accurately, as appearances are deceiving.

I know people who earn high incomes whose financial position is one week from broke.

Their socio-economic class, based on their financial point is not a lot better than dole bludger, if you base this all on how much week they have at the end of the money. They appear wealthy, but are like a duck swimming on a pond - calm on the surface but going flat out underneath.

In raw terms, I guess you could define the three classes like this:

Poor - renting, unable to purchase their own home, no other income producing assets, unable to take decent holidays and buy everyday material consumer items,have to work full-time to make ends meet, often struggle to do so, are on some form of Govt benefit.

Middle-Class - renting, but able to save to buy their own home, or buying their own home, able to save and/or invest part of their income towards retirement/wealth creation, nett worth from income producing assets and own home is less than $2 million, able to take decent holidays and buy everyday consumer items, have to work full-time to make ends meet, often struggle to do so.

Wealthy - own/buying their own home, own income producing assets such as IP's, shares, businesses, royalties, nett-worth from income producing assets more than $2 million, able to take decent holidays and buy consumer items with cash, do not need to work full-time or at all to make ends meet.
 
"Pay As You Earn" - ATO talk for average joe employee tax payments (as different from PAYG - pay as you go - for small business, self employed etc).

Cheers,
The Y-man

my last group cert said PAYG and i am an average joe (employee tax payments)?? unless im mistakenly logged on to somersoft.com.UK or have travelled back in time to 1999 then disregard.
 
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my last group cert said PAYG and i am an average joe (employee tax payments)?? unless im mistakenly logged on to somersoft.com.UK or have travelled back in time to 1999 then disregard.

Your boss automatically takes tax out of your pay, then you get a refund at the end of the year?

Or are you responsible for setting aside money each week, and get a bill at the end of the year?

Edit: WTF is a group certificate?
 
Bread

Hi all,

Assuming an age range between 35 and 55, can someone tell me at what financial point does one move from lower socioeconomic class to middle class and then onto wealthy?

How / can this be measured?

I watched a documentary a couple years ago that went into indicators to measure socioeconomic classes Apparently the best indicator is what type of BREAD you buy.

It made sense when watched, the poor tend to buy the 99 cent loaves, middle class go for helgas/bakers delight sour dough type loaves, while the rich are willing to buy exotic boutique style loaves.
 
So as a follow up question to this, if you did a poll what percentage of people would place themselves into each group?

My call is that almost know one would put themselves into the poor or wealthy and more than 90% in the middle.

Having said that if I had to group the Aussie population into groups I would think that there would be a high percentage in the poor group as apposed to the other two.
 
I watched a documentary a couple years ago that went into indicators to measure socioeconomic classes Apparently the best indicator is what type of BREAD you buy.

It made sense when watched, the poor tend to buy the 99 cent loaves, middle class go for helgas/bakers delight sour dough type loaves, while the rich are willing to buy exotic boutique style loaves.

Based on that assumption, what does that make us. We buy a mix of the cheap 99 cent loaves (local baker & tastes great & fresher than any of the supermarket breads) and Bakers Delight, which is the most exotic boutique style in my area.:rolleyes:
 
makes you halfway between poor and middle class der! the fact that you dont even have access to boutique bread in your local area further confirms this:D
 
Also, the more KFCs, Macca's, Pizza Hut and Hungry Jacks outlets in a suburb, the lower socio-economic status of the suburb. There is proof that disadvantaged people generally eat way more junk food then middle class people.
 
makes you halfway between poor and middle class der! the fact that you dont even have access to boutique bread in your local area further confirms this:D

Well, I can assure you that I am NOT halfway between poor & middle class, so you can do what you want with that statement. We do, however, choose to live in a less desirable suburb than our income would normally dictate for a variety of reasons.
 
When talking about socio economic status I tend to put more emphasis on the socio side of things.

As they say around my area, you can take the boy out of the port but you can't take the port out of the boy.
 
Also, the more KFCs, Macca's, Pizza Hut and Hungry Jacks outlets in a suburb, the lower socio-economic status of the suburb. There is proof that disadvantaged people generally eat way more junk food then middle class people.

Absolutely! The amount of these outlets astounds me, but they are far more expensive than cooking your own food, so I don't really understand why the lower socio-economic's choose to frequent these places as often as they do.
 
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