How fussy is too fussy for a PPOR?
- Thread starter Chloe
- Start date
With respect to your pricing due diligence, rates notices are almost entirely IRRELEVANT. They serve at best academic interest and the basis on which how you you will be paying in rates to the relevant council. Otherwise IRRELEVANT. And yes, one other thing, they are irrelevant!
With respect to negotiation, what you have found out is validation that the owner wants offers north of $390k. Sometimes you need to test the agent/owner with a lowish offer to see where they stand. And that's a good thing as you now know the basis on which you can base your next step, if you choose to.
You asked the question about being puzzled why the owner thought they could achieve between $400-$440k? There could be many reasons, minimum amount owner needs, comparables in that price range, agent advice on what think it is worth. Again largely irrelevant. What does the market think? At this stage, the agent indicated another offer which appears to be over $390k? Well it either is or it isn't and given the language they are trying to let you know that they are not going to consider anything around that price. At least for now.
The agents comments about what the owner wants (ie $440k) is also sending you a message to say, you need to go higher.
I suspect that the agent has said to them the house is worth somewhere in between $400-$440k and would be on their authority. The owner has probably said something like, well I would only want to sell if we can get $440k then.
With regards to under-quoting and regulations around price advertising, what the agent has mentioned to you (owner wants $440k) shows they are technically under-quoting and have breached the REIV guidelines (assuming they are a REIV member). The regs are that prices should not be advertised as 'offers over', 'negotiations from' etc, it should be either a range, where that range is 10% only or a single price. So with regards to the above, they should be advertising $440-$440. But its academic until the REIV and Consumer Affairs start to address this seriously, and my gut instinct tells me they wont in the current softish market.
The advertised offers over $390k, makes it sound cheaper for people looking at it, because it starts with a 3. Not much more science to that. But a pretty powerful one, because under-quoting, alas works i.e. it gets people interested and generally can then be conditioned upwards throughout the marketing campaign because the real value is something generally a bit higher and interest will typically be around this level.
Even when you have unconditional offer, the bank's terms and conditions for those, still say something to the effect that they still need to value the property and have a right to refuse to advance you the funds. But don't be spooked by that, because generally, at least for established houses as opposed to OTP's, an arms length negotiation between a buyer and seller is almost always the valued price.
And one more thing.....council rates are irrelevant.....
Ok, So council valuations are irrelevant.
In my opinion the house is overpriced, 390,000 is ok but not low 4's...no way!!
I'm looking at the one with the shower room today and the agent said offers over $380 due to it needing a huge tidy up.
Well then does that mean 381? or are they really wantind 430? It annoys me no end, just ask for what you want!
I'll make an offer today if i'm happy S/T bank valuation and BI but might just say it's valid for 24 hours as we're approaching xmas and want to give myself maximum time to find something else.
Is it expected that there will always be someone who has made a higher offer according to the REA (lies)? And do they always ask for more money?? How does NO sound? It's not like these are prestigious and highly sought after proerties that have been immaculately maintained!
In my opinion the house is overpriced, 390,000 is ok but not low 4's...no way!!
I'm looking at the one with the shower room today and the agent said offers over $380 due to it needing a huge tidy up.
Well then does that mean 381? or are they really wantind 430? It annoys me no end, just ask for what you want!
I'll make an offer today if i'm happy S/T bank valuation and BI but might just say it's valid for 24 hours as we're approaching xmas and want to give myself maximum time to find something else.
Is it expected that there will always be someone who has made a higher offer according to the REA (lies)? And do they always ask for more money?? How does NO sound? It's not like these are prestigious and highly sought after proerties that have been immaculately maintained!
Chloe, if you walk into a property, knowing the market, ideally you could value the place within a price range too! Why do you need at least initially to be guided by the REA? If you know this, you are in a position of absolute clarity. Let's say you think this property is worth a maximum of $390k and not a cent over, then its irrelevant what the advertised price is. Yes?
You are abdicating your power of negotiations to the REA otherwise.
Buzzlighyear, yes I agree but it seems a too easy comeback for the agent to say...oh no, they're looking at offers over whatever $.
If there's competition it will also make things harder as someone will pay what the vendor is asking or more, unless the house has been on the market for months or there's something wrong with it.
I'm learning a lot but it's not a pleasant experience.
If there's competition it will also make things harder as someone will pay what the vendor is asking or more, unless the house has been on the market for months or there's something wrong with it.
I'm learning a lot but it's not a pleasant experience.
Its not the easy option for the agent, it's called a negotiation. The REA is trying to maximise the price of the property for the vendor. They aren't an independent third party facilitating a negotiation between two (2) parties.
They have advertised a price which has attracted your interest. However in the world of under-quoting or whatever you want to call it, they know the real value of the property is worth more than this advertised price, for argument sake, $390k-420k. They are going to try and get $420, and will look at legitimate tactics to getting you there.
Hi Chloe,
Are you in a hurry to buy? If not, why not sit back and watch the market in your area some more? Wait for the properties that haven't sold before Christmas. By January some of these vendors will be desperate to sell either due to their need to relocate or for pressing financial reasons.
I'm told by my wife who works in mortgages that January is a good month to pick up properties being off loaded by couples divorcing. Not to mention those who have overdone the credit cards at Christmas and need to refinance or in some cases sell up.
Take your time because you may pick up a fantastic house at a good price.
Regards Jason
Are you in a hurry to buy? If not, why not sit back and watch the market in your area some more? Wait for the properties that haven't sold before Christmas. By January some of these vendors will be desperate to sell either due to their need to relocate or for pressing financial reasons.
I'm told by my wife who works in mortgages that January is a good month to pick up properties being off loaded by couples divorcing. Not to mention those who have overdone the credit cards at Christmas and need to refinance or in some cases sell up.
Take your time because you may pick up a fantastic house at a good price.
Regards Jason
Jingo, I'm not in a hurry to buy.
I've been looking for about 8 months now and I'm well and truly over it.
There are some properties in my price range that have come up recently and I'm going to go and have a look at one today.
What's most frustrating is to pick the best of a bad bunch or what nightmare floorplan, asbestos shed, backyard door in kids bedroom or shower room is the best one!!
I've come to terms with the fact that everything will be ugly, awkward or just plain revolting in my price range. But i have to imagine it once these things have been changed....
I'll definately keep my eyes open to see what lurking around after xmas.
I've been looking for about 8 months now and I'm well and truly over it.
There are some properties in my price range that have come up recently and I'm going to go and have a look at one today.
What's most frustrating is to pick the best of a bad bunch or what nightmare floorplan, asbestos shed, backyard door in kids bedroom or shower room is the best one!!
I've come to terms with the fact that everything will be ugly, awkward or just plain revolting in my price range. But i have to imagine it once these things have been changed....
I'll definately keep my eyes open to see what lurking around after xmas.
Typically replacing carpet and underlay will get rid of animal smell easily. If it has gotten into the timber then there are also products that can be used to remove urine smell.
I love houses that a stinky putrid cesspools cosmetically. They rule out 95% of buyers and make for easy low priced buying. I looked at one earlier this year that had a bed ridden old man with 5 cats, there were cat faecaes on the walls and floor, the carpet was sticky with urine, it was a case of take a deep breath and go in, dont breathe inside.
I didnt buy it as it needed about 30k of work, but I did buy another that had cockroaches pouring off the front door on opening by the agent and was crawling with them, it had been abandoned by tenants and had rotten food on the kitchen benchtops, clothes and dirty nappies in piles in the corner of the lounge room, stunk of dog, rear yard was waist high grass and full of junk. Nobody else, not even the agent, would go inside at the open, I was happily walking around seeing what could be done with it, only took $5k to get it back to being nice again and it recently revalued about 20% higher than purchase price.
I love houses that a stinky putrid cesspools cosmetically. They rule out 95% of buyers and make for easy low priced buying. I looked at one earlier this year that had a bed ridden old man with 5 cats, there were cat faecaes on the walls and floor, the carpet was sticky with urine, it was a case of take a deep breath and go in, dont breathe inside.
I didnt buy it as it needed about 30k of work, but I did buy another that had cockroaches pouring off the front door on opening by the agent and was crawling with them, it had been abandoned by tenants and had rotten food on the kitchen benchtops, clothes and dirty nappies in piles in the corner of the lounge room, stunk of dog, rear yard was waist high grass and full of junk. Nobody else, not even the agent, would go inside at the open, I was happily walking around seeing what could be done with it, only took $5k to get it back to being nice again and it recently revalued about 20% higher than purchase price.
Dave, if it was only me i had to worry about these things wouldn't be such an issue but i have 2 children to consider and one has asthma.
I'd prefer minimal mould and infestations if possible!
Hey boys come and see your new swimming pool...just swim over the algae and don't breathe in when inside!
I'd prefer minimal mould and infestations if possible!
Hey boys come and see your new swimming pool...just swim over the algae and don't breathe in when inside!
Heh, well that kind of stuff is easily fixed with correct filtration and chemical treatment.
For something like smelly carpet, arrange quotes during settlement and get the carpet layers in the day after settlement happens and get a pool mob in, then move into a nice house bought at a good price a day or two later.
You can also pay a professional cleaner to come in for a day and clean the whole place, eg kitchen and bathroom, will cost a couple of hundred max.
For something like smelly carpet, arrange quotes during settlement and get the carpet layers in the day after settlement happens and get a pool mob in, then move into a nice house bought at a good price a day or two later.
You can also pay a professional cleaner to come in for a day and clean the whole place, eg kitchen and bathroom, will cost a couple of hundred max.
Don't discount what Dave says.
Many people I know let their pools go revolting over winter (just put the cover on) then hit it with massive chemicals in Spring ready for perfect swimming water in summer.
Last place we left, I couldn't be bothered cleaning as was over an hour drive away so got cleaners thru ... 5 bed, 3 bath, carpet cleaning etc ... $600. Best money I ever spent.
Or, as David says, get the carpet guys in to rip the old carpet out - cleaners thru - carpet guys back to install new carpet - move in. Max a week delay. New house smell.
Many people I know let their pools go revolting over winter (just put the cover on) then hit it with massive chemicals in Spring ready for perfect swimming water in summer.
Last place we left, I couldn't be bothered cleaning as was over an hour drive away so got cleaners thru ... 5 bed, 3 bath, carpet cleaning etc ... $600. Best money I ever spent.
Or, as David says, get the carpet guys in to rip the old carpet out - cleaners thru - carpet guys back to install new carpet - move in. Max a week delay. New house smell.
Thanks Lizzie,
Definately food for thought.
One thing thats very off putting is the main door that leads to the backyard is in the kids bedroom, screen door and all. The other way to get out there is throught the laundry on the side.
It has a shower room too, although i found that to be extremely useless and a waste of space it's the least of it's problems.
I needs a HUGE tidy up, may revisit it if it's still available.
This is it if you're interested.
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-vic-wantirna-112586531
Definately food for thought.
One thing thats very off putting is the main door that leads to the backyard is in the kids bedroom, screen door and all. The other way to get out there is throught the laundry on the side.
It has a shower room too, although i found that to be extremely useless and a waste of space it's the least of it's problems.
I needs a HUGE tidy up, may revisit it if it's still available.
This is it if you're interested.
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-vic-wantirna-112586531
looks much better than the other one for a cosmetic makeover ... not sure how you go re the backyard door without seeing a floorplan ... I'd say that room was a family/rumpus room.
Is it possible, if you buy for $x less than comparables, would it leave enough to extend with an extra bedroom?
Is it possible to convert it back to a second living area, and then take over one of the other living areas for your 3rd bedroom?
It'd be great to open up that dining room to the kitchen, and convert the entire kitchen area to "kitchen", ie, get rid of that silly little table area.
Work out what are structural walls, and then everything else is "optional"
Is it possible, if you buy for $x less than comparables, would it leave enough to extend with an extra bedroom?
Is it possible to convert it back to a second living area, and then take over one of the other living areas for your 3rd bedroom?
It'd be great to open up that dining room to the kitchen, and convert the entire kitchen area to "kitchen", ie, get rid of that silly little table area.
Work out what are structural walls, and then everything else is "optional"
Lizzie it does look heaps better in the pics but it's very deceiving.
The other one has a great floor plan with doors that open up onto the backyard undecover area from the living area.
I made an offer on that one for 390,000 and got a phone call today that it's mine for 420,000.....umm where did you pull that figure from as i don't have 420,000 to offer!!! So this is what over 390 means!!
This one would need structural changes to make it family friendly. Don't know if i'm up for that!
I could clean the pool, remove that smell and carpets and paint but structural things when you don't know builders is out of my comfort zone.
Although i wouldn't discount it forever but maybe not now.
The other one has a great floor plan with doors that open up onto the backyard undecover area from the living area.
I made an offer on that one for 390,000 and got a phone call today that it's mine for 420,000.....umm where did you pull that figure from as i don't have 420,000 to offer!!! So this is what over 390 means!!
This one would need structural changes to make it family friendly. Don't know if i'm up for that!
I could clean the pool, remove that smell and carpets and paint but structural things when you don't know builders is out of my comfort zone.
Although i wouldn't discount it forever but maybe not now.
