How many properties can you manage ?

[HotRod]

Just on that....how then do you manage when someone else, other than a "tenant" owes you money or has damaged your property(any property) ?

I'm seeing a pattern of reluctance from some LL's to carry on what is normal business interaction with their clients.

There are rules and regulations, it's not all scary as Dazz will have you believe.

However, I am not accusing anyone of being scared, just that it is not so scary when you have been thru it for sometime and had experience and break it down to simple rules to abide by and keeping onto the issues both your and tenants responsibilities.

Dealing with business people is an entirely different kettle o' fish compared to dealing with some resi tenants.

There is a certain business decorum in those negotiations.

Resi tenants just sign a RTA and then go about doing the complete opposite at times plus all their personal problems and hubby just lost his job and the dog got sick and we had a vet bill, blah blah blah.

 

[MichaelGilbert]

Summary

I'm wondering how many rental properties people managed before it all got too much and they then had to hand them over to a property manager ?

Assuming you were working full time and the properties were resi, say a single house / unit etc...

I bet your even more confused than you were when asked the question. haha

Us property manages have similar questions - how many properties should a property manager handle on their own (without any help)? Some would say 120 and some would say upto 250.

For all of us, I think it depends on a couple of key areas:
- The systems you have in place (there are some good online systems for Landlords who prefer to keep in control of their own properties)
- Types of properties (if they are nice homes, generally they attract good tenants which means a bucket load of less work)
- Proximity from Office/home - I think this is self explanatory

Putting myself in your shoes, I would start to think of systems to help you manage more properties in less time. After a while if its getting too much work, off load a couple of the cheaper properties (that require more effort and cost you less in fees) to a property manager.

 

[The Fence]

Dealing with business people is an entirely different kettle o' fish compared to dealing with some resi tenants.

There is a certain business decorum in those negotiations.

Resi tenants just sign a RTA and then go about doing the complete opposite at times plus all their personal problems and hubby just lost his job and the dog got sick and we had a vet bill, blah blah blah.

So what does the PM do to remedy this?

Business decorum?
Plenty of business go down owing money all over the shop and for all sorts of reasons, including getting sick.

Basically, my point is, this is a business and no different to any other.
Work within the rules, enforce the rules, let tenants know that you know the rules(mad if you don't) before signing anyone up.

Works for us and many others but I also can see how some folks simply don't want anything to do with it and happy to pay that price.

 

[nhg]

Just on that....how then do you manage when someone else, other than a "tenant" owes you money or has damaged your property(any property) ?

I met an ex-investor who set the tenants car on fire...

I deal with delayed payments and contracts often enough to know I can do a job better than most property managers (and builders). In fact I usually find my own tenants and negotiate the contract then hand it over to the property manager. I also source all the repairs etc.

The reason I pay the PM fee, is so they can fill in the paperwork and show up to tribunal whilst I stay at work and earn multiple times more than what I pay them for the same period of time.

It is not a fear as such, more realising I can use the same amount of time (when things go wrong) leveraging my current income/investments.

 

[Chomp]

I bet your even more confused than you were when asked the question. haha

Us property manages have similar questions - how many properties should a property manager handle on their own (without any help)? Some would say 120 and some would say upto 250.

For all of us, I think it depends on a couple of key areas:
- The systems you have in place (there are some good online systems for Landlords who prefer to keep in control of their own properties)
- Types of properties (if they are nice homes, generally they attract good tenants which means a bucket load of less work)
- Proximity from Office/home - I think this is self explanatory

Putting myself in your shoes, I would start to think of systems to help you manage more properties in less time. After a while if its getting too much work, off load a couple of the cheaper properties (that require more effort and cost you less in fees) to a property manager.

Thats good advice there Michael thanks, it is good to hear other people's experience's if nothing else, I'm thinking ten and re asses, so a few more years to go.

 

[alaninbrisbane]

Self Management

10 Ip 15 20 Had That Many Enough Headaches Doing The Things That Only We Can Do Without Having To Play Pm For A Start These People Know The Act If They Make A Mistake U Have Legal Recourse They Negotiate With Your Tenant Not U , How Would The Average' I Wanna Be A Pm And Save 8% Less Tax Concession" Perform At At Qcat Hearing Or Similar Tribunal Crazy Crazy Stuff My Advice To Those Are Not Fully Up To Speed Is To Do One Thing One Thing Only Find A Great Pm Not Easy But They Are There The Verge Property Is Easy To Run Ith A Pro Tenants Now Have Enormous Rights One Mistake U Are Gone My View Is That These Fees Should Be Factored Into The feasibility Survey Upfront If Its That Tight That It Doesnt Work Find Another Property A Trap For Beginners

 

[Ed Barton]

10 Ip 15 20 Had That Many Enough Headaches Doing The Things That Only We Can Do Without Having To Play Pm For A Start These People Know The Act If They Make A Mistake U Have Legal Recourse They Negotiate With Your Tenant Not U , How Would The Average' I Wanna Be A Pm And Save 8% Less Tax Concession" Perform At At Qcat Hearing Or Similar Tribunal Crazy Crazy Stuff My Advice To Those Are Not Fully Up To Speed Is To Do One Thing One Thing Only Find A Great Pm Not Easy But They Are There The Verge Property Is Easy To Run Ith A Pro Tenants Now Have Enormous Rights One Mistake U Are Gone My View Is That These Fees Should Be Factored Into The feasibility Survey Upfront If Its That Tight That It Doesnt Work Find Another Property A Trap For Beginners

You might want to try some punctuation and not capitalise every word. Your post is word salad.

 

[alaninbrisbane]

Response to Ed

Thanks Ed, maybe u can call Samsung and ask them why they haven't fixed their computer glitch yet,is simple..anyway each to his own , Everything is simple in this world..until there is a problem. I wish you luck, My wife spends 10 hours per week looking after the 'backend' stuff banks, insurances, rates, accounting, tax paper trails, juggling money between accounts when thing are tight..this was just when we had 10 properties, and it has increased a little since then ,,she now uses book keeper to help her out .. Id be interested to know how u find tenants realestate.com.au ? how you do rental history checks and how you handle disputes in the tribunals , if u have any.. Many people do thier own Pm successfully-you sound like u have lots of answers to these tough questions to share ,,thanks for your response ...I apologize for my typing,,, I didnt think that my answer would be graded by my keyboard skills...

 

[wylie]

Id be interested to know how u find tenants realestate.com.au ? how you do rental history checks and how you handle disputes in the tribunals , if u have any.. Many people do thier own Pm successfully...

For over 30 years we've found tenants via the newspaper. It was a problem about ten years ago when people stopped looking in the papers due to having re.com available. We tried agents who would allow a "let only" but mostly they were hopeless. Then we found alternative sites which were successful, but not as good as re.com (not the same volume of traffic).

We've never done a rental history check, never checked references (even when we were handed a reference). This is me and my (late) mother... we did all the tenant finding. In the dozens of tenants we've had through our various houses, Mum had two tribunal cases (won them both), we had one tenant damage a house, and we had one tenant do a runner.

We followed our gut instincts. Each tenant who was "trouble" was no surprise. Each time, we chose them against our gut instinct because we needed to get the house rented and the money flowing.

For the past three years, we have had two great agents take over the finding of a tenant, checks, leases etc. We only did this because the week of my mother's funeral we had three houses empty and just handed it all over.

But we continue down this path now because I'm happy to pay a week's rent for all that work, and for a property management business, it is good value... then get one week's rent for a couple of hours of work from a property manager, so I believe it is a win/win.

 

[alaninbrisbane]

For over 30 years we've found tenants via the newspaper. It was a problem about ten years ago when people stopped looking in the papers due to having re.com available. We tried agents who would allow a "let only" but mostly they were hopeless. Then we found alternative sites which were successful, but not as good as re.com (not the same volume of traffic).

We've never done a rental history check, never checked references (even when we were handed a reference). This is me and my (late) mother... we did all the tenant finding. In the dozens of tenants we've had through our various houses, Mum had two tribunal cases (won them both), we had one tenant damage a house, and we had one tenant do a runner.

We followed our gut instincts. Each tenant who was "trouble" was no surprise. Each time, we chose them against our gut instinct because we needed to get the house rented and the money flowing.

For the past three years, we have had two great agents take over the finding of a tenant, checks, leases etc. We only did this because the week of my mother's funeral we had three houses empty and just handed it all over.

But we continue down this path now because I'm happy to pay a week's rent for all that work, and for a property management business, it is good value... then get one week's rent for a couple of hours of work from a property manager, so I believe it is a win/win.

Well it seems that its working well for u ....keep at it ..

 

[oc1]

How many properties could I manage: Lots
How many properties do I want to manage: 0

And this way you fill your days NOT dealing with tenants but on more deals. Or relaxing

Oscar

 

[Chomp]

And this way you fill your days NOT dealing with tenants but on more deals. Or relaxing

Oscar

And that is the end goal, but I am not in that position yet, there is a tipping point of working full time and acquiring properties and then being able to quit working full time.

Obviously if you work full time and manage the properties yourself you can save a fair bit of money every year which would enable you to acquire more properties a long the way.

 

[oc1]

And that is the end goal, but I am not in that position yet, there is a tipping point of working full time and acquiring properties and then being able to quit working full time.

Obviously if you work full time and manage the properties yourself you can save a fair bit of money every year which would enable you to acquire more properties a long the way.

Sorry but I disagree. Saving the management fee has so little to do with acquiring more property.

 

[Chomp]

Well I think it is relative, for someone starting out it would make a big difference, once you have a few and some decent equity, I agree not so much.

For myself I look at it this way, $150 a week for a couple of hours work is $75 an hr after tax, not bad coin.

 

[alexlee]

For myself I look at it this way, $150 a week for a couple of hours work is $75 an hr after tax, not bad coin.

What happens when you take a holiday?

 

[Chomp]

Lots of drinking and other things I cant talk about !

No seriously, Last time I took my laptop and phone, no issues really.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Well I think it is relative, for someone starting out it would make a big difference, once you have a few and some decent equity, I agree not so much.

For myself I look at it this way, $150 a week for a couple of hours work is $75 an hr after tax, not bad coin.

Yes, depends on your own circumstances.
If you are time rich and asset/cashflow poor, it can make sense to self manage.
Asset/cashflow rich and time poor doesn't make sense to self manage.

 

[wylie]

What happens when you take a holiday?

Speaking for our situation, when we went overseas for three weeks, I sent our tenants my brother's phone number. He was happy to look after anything that came up (nothing did come up) and our oldest son would have looked after things if my brother was not doing it. (My brother moved into our house for the three weeks to look after the dog and the 16 year old "baby" and make sure he got out of bed each morning ).

Looking after rental houses would have been much easier than looking after a blind, deaf and incontinent dog and a teenager...

 

[marks]

I'm self managing only one IP at the moment. Take 10mins each week at the moment when the tenant is in. Had to spend 30 mins organising a new Hot Water System this week though.
More time and effort though when getting a tenant in or out.

I was more worried about getting a bad reference or TICA issue. Also getting a RE.com.au advert.
I used e-property rentals http://www.epropertyrentals.com.au/
they have a great let only service and did all the open inspections and checks for me.
Would use them again in a heartbeat.

When I get a few more IPs, I'll be looking for them to manage as well.

Good luck!

 

[MelbGal]

0 for me.

I already have a fulltime job and its not worth the hassle and stress when the cost is so small (plus tax deductible).