How to get on BRW rich 200 via residential property?

[MarkB]

Ahh, this is starting to remind me of this thread.

As it turns out I didn't see the BRW 2005 Young Rich List, so I don't know if Peter Spann was on it. Were you, Peter?

It certainly is the case that assets can be hidden in legal structures so that a private organisation such as BRW could not gain a sufficiently detailed enough understanding to allow a calculation of a minimum net wealth that would qualify for entry on either list.

Nevetheless there may be something in what BRW said a few years back:

There's only one thing worse than being on the list.

Being taken off it.

Mark

 

[topcropper]

I stumbled onto this list from Crikey last year about the ones that missed out on the list. Just googled it up again. According to Crikey, there are a lot that miss out if this can be believed,...

http://crikey.com.au/articles/2005/05/19-1600-7088.html

Interesting to see Kerr Nielson of 'Platinum' on the list of missed outs. Perhaps Crikey are redoing a new missed out list for this year?

[edit, it appears that Kerr made this years list, after Crikey pointed out his wealth last year] Must buy my copy. Haven't missed out for years.

See ya's.

 

[geoffw]

I had a look at that Crikey article, thinking that I wouldn't know any of them- but I have met Nick Moraitis. His firm supplies all fresh veggies to many of the Subways in NSW. At the Subway franchisees' Christmas party at Rosehill last year, his horse won the Subway plate.

It's interesting the comment on John Laws-

the Golden Tonsils is also a very smart property investor who has amassed a large, growing and valuable portfolio over the years.

 

[natmarie73]

YOU DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE TO BE ON THE BRW 200. IF YOU HAVE $130M + OF ASSETS, YOU ARE ON THE LIST. PERIOD.

Hee hee, don't you mean that you have to have $130m worth of assets that can be found?

If someone had $130m of assets hidden away offshore they wouldn't be on the list would they. If I had amassed that much assets no way would I be keeping it where the ATO or anyone else could find it.

 

[investor]

Originally Posted by Mary
YOU DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE TO BE ON THE BRW 200. IF YOU HAVE $130M + OF ASSETS, YOU ARE ON THE LIST. PERIOD

Not at all.

The true wealth of alot of rich people only becomes known to the media when they list their private companies on the ASX or they sell to a company that's listed on the ASX.

An example of this is Theo Karidis who debut in 2003 at $194Mil (now $325Mil). He didn't just make $194Mil in 2003, he owned hundreds of liquor stores (Theo's liquor) which he sold to Coles in 2003 for $175Mil.

All of a sudden his wealth was made public and on the list.

And for the forumite who's looking for a shopping centre for sale the Broadway Shopping Centre in the city is for sale and if you're interested I'll put you in touch with my mate Lang.

Regards

Investor

 

[Go Fast]

YOU DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE TO BE ON THE BRW 200. IF YOU HAVE $130M + OF ASSETS, YOU ARE ON THE LIST. PERIOD.

How do you explain the Super A-Mart fella that debuted on the list with $1 billion + last year? I very much doubt his business was worth less than $130m the year before!!

 

[young_gun]

The editors of the Forbes rich list admitted that they have to estimate a lot of their listee's wealth, especially when it comes to private companies, private landholdings, etc. They ask the owners for estimates, so people who want to show how rich they are (again, using Trump as an example) they will respond with big figures.
Alex

This is definatly the case. They way Trump canvases around and the amount of hype he generates from himself you would think he is one of the the richest Americans. Not soo. In fact he is only 85th on the forbes 200. Admitantly this is an achievment but the way this guy talks himself up is phenominal. Their have actually been claims that trump is only worth a couple of million dollars. Not saying this is true but at the end of the day it is impossible for reporters / researchers to obtain 100 % accurate information on all the wealthy people on one country. Their are certaintly people who keep things on the low away from public scruitiny. As mentiond by someone else the rich list is a personal shoping list for criminals as well as an invitiation to be audited.

 

[investor]

Hi all

Back to the original question though, I think it's OK to aim to be eligible for the list but not actually be on it.

Possibly easier to go for the Young Rich List Top 50 under 40's if your under 40 and have made your wealth yourself, no inheritance.

With buy and hold and starting from scratch at say the age of 25 - 30 it would be absolutely impossible to get there. Buy and Hold just takes to much time.

You would have to do some aggressive property developing taking risks and really timing the market perfectly always going for bigger or more developments than the one before.

Whether you hold some along the way or have all your money in your next development, I don't think matters as long as you have some kind of property all the time.

I believe anybody can make it to this list (be eligible) provided they are focused in what they are doing, comfortable in taking risks in the begining anyway and they actually have to believe they can do it.

I have met so many people who have just given up achieving that kind of wealth as they believe it's impossible for them to do.

Regards
Investor

 

[alexlee]

Hi all

Back to the original question though, I think it's OK to aim to be eligible for the list but not actually be on it.

Possibly easier to go for the Young Rich List Top 50 under 40's if your under 40 and have made your wealth yourself, no inheritance.

Does it really matter? For example, in my case I want to achieve a certain level of lifestyle purely from investment income. The Rich List is a yardstick but a yardstick for what? Recognition that you're one of the richest people in the country? What does that have to do with my goals?

If I manage to achieve the lifestyle I want in the way that I want (mainly, quit the day job, do whatever I want) then I don't care how I rank on the richest list. Getting onto the Rich200 doesn't entitle you to anything (maybe an increased risk of getting kidnapped). If having enough money to get on the Rich200 list DOESN'T let me achieve my goals (if my goals are much higher) then it STILL doesn't matter. $130m certainly isn't very much if you want a 80ft boat, an island in the Carribean private jets and so on. If that's what you want, the Rich200 STILL doesn't mean anything.

Live for your own goals, not the goals of people who read the Rich200 list like a gossip mag. To me wanting to get on the Rich200 list is like wanting to get onto the front page of News of the World or Daily Sun or any other gossip rag.
Alex

 

[KL1]

The 'secret' to building wealth is leveraging. It doesn't really matter whether you invest in residential property, commercial property, shares or Business. The trick is to find the vehicle which will allow you to leverage most effectively. The reason so many millionaires/billionaires invest heavily in property is for the leveraging benefits and the reason commercial property is represented so strongly on the BRW 200 list is due to the (relative) ease of being able to purchase millions of $$$ of property with few transaction costs. Imagine the costs and time involved in purchasing $100M in residential property. By purchasing commercial property you have also significantly reduced the time involved in the purchase ($100M of assets). Time = Money. Also, most millionaires want access to the debt that $100M of assets will afford them, not neccessarily the asset itself.

Jamie Packer's PBL has increased its net debt to $1.74billion and the Packer's private company CPC has loans of $1.9 billion. There are not many people in this world who would be comfortable with that amount of debt, but that is how the seriously rich make their money. It's all about Leverage!

 

[alexlee]

It DOES seem like there are a lot more property BRW200 members than non-property BRW members. Contrast that to the US lists, where there are more entrepreneurs from other industries. e.g. investors like Buffett and some hedge fund guys, entrepreneurs from all sorts of industries from high tech like Bill Gates and Michael Dell, to people in 'boring' industries like Wal-mart, manufacturing, etc.

I wonder if that says something about the Australian economy or the character of Australian entrepreneurs? There are whole industries that just don't exist on the ASX. e.g. about the only listed fast food company is Dominos, while there are plenty to choose from in the US. Size of the economy matters, of course, but does this mean Australians concentrate more on property because a lot of our other industries are just 'imported' or dominated by foreign-based companies (most big hotels, computers, etc)?
Alex

 

[Beach Bum]

The BRW200 & 1000 Private companies list is put together very loosely.
The "up & coming" is whoever is promoting their business hard enough.
Basically only the people in certain "circles" or who publicly tout their net worth get on there. And of course those whose wealth is in listed shares.

They missed John Van Lieshout with $1 Billion, and Tony Perich came in at $515 Mil. And yes there are a few more like them, but who knows if they'll ever be on BRW.