http://www.optionetics.com.au/
- Thread starter sailor
- Start date
I honestly don't believe you can build long term wealth from all these black-box day trading stuff, earn pocket money may be.
Good grief! That's pretty expensive. I can probably get this tuition free from the on-line courses from the ASX.
I would never recommend options if you haven't been deeply following the stock market for several years.
You also need to have lost some money in shares and seen the market gyrate wildly with several holdings
However its an excellent idea to broaden your investment knowledge.
If you are an expert then options are a very sound way to invest...........though risky if you are not following the market very, very closely .
I am not an expert.
If you have posted this then you don't have enough background to appreciate the course , in my view.
I think Yo yo man or Y man is pretty clued up , cant recall which
Interestingly the qualifications of those running the course are not listed nor the people running the course.
You also need to have lost some money in shares and seen the market gyrate wildly with several holdings
However its an excellent idea to broaden your investment knowledge.
If you are an expert then options are a very sound way to invest...........though risky if you are not following the market very, very closely .
I am not an expert.
If you have posted this then you don't have enough background to appreciate the course , in my view.
I think Yo yo man or Y man is pretty clued up , cant recall which
Interestingly the qualifications of those running the course are not listed nor the people running the course.
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I went to one in Sydney a while back with my business partner who has been to them before. He was keen for one of us to sign up to the course and split the cost.
The presenter was patronising, creepy and sweaty! They really push to sign up to the course which would probably be quite good BUT it is only the beginner course and there are several more $4k courses to do after that one...
Ebay often have the full Optionetics course material available - it is books and DVD's. Just beware the latest study materials contains DVD's and the older materials have tapes rather than discs!
It is a good experience to go to the seminar anyway for educational puproses - who knows, it might suit you.
Also check out these forums...
http://www.aussiestockforums.com/
http://www.shares.com.au/
There are some members on here who are Options experts. I try and pick up stuff from them. They are very generous with their time and expertise.
I have purchased two books that are regularly recommened when looking into trading Options:
The Psychology of Trading by Brett N. Steenbarger
Options As a Strategic Investment by Larry McMillan
Good luck if you go!
The presenter was patronising, creepy and sweaty! They really push to sign up to the course which would probably be quite good BUT it is only the beginner course and there are several more $4k courses to do after that one...
Ebay often have the full Optionetics course material available - it is books and DVD's. Just beware the latest study materials contains DVD's and the older materials have tapes rather than discs!
It is a good experience to go to the seminar anyway for educational puproses - who knows, it might suit you.
Also check out these forums...
http://www.aussiestockforums.com/
http://www.shares.com.au/
There are some members on here who are Options experts. I try and pick up stuff from them. They are very generous with their time and expertise.
I have purchased two books that are regularly recommened when looking into trading Options:
The Psychology of Trading by Brett N. Steenbarger
Options As a Strategic Investment by Larry McMillan
Good luck if you go!
We bought the entire course
Here are some outcomes:
1. the freebie seminar did not teach anything you couldn't have picked up from the ASX site or books on options
2. yes we did make the cost of the course back within a year or so
3. I did learn a fair bit about options trading strategies I had not come across before
4. we found it difficult to implement many of the strategies in the books due mainly to the lower liquidity in the Australian options market (compared to the USA)
Cheers,
The Y-man
Here are some outcomes:
1. the freebie seminar did not teach anything you couldn't have picked up from the ASX site or books on options
2. yes we did make the cost of the course back within a year or so
3. I did learn a fair bit about options trading strategies I had not come across before
4. we found it difficult to implement many of the strategies in the books due mainly to the lower liquidity in the Australian options market (compared to the USA)
Cheers,
The Y-man
Hi All,
I've often recommended ...
It is the definitive book on all the possible strategies. It is not a cheap book, nor an easy read, however if you really wish to become involved in options, then you need to spend the time reading it.
I agree with Y-man about the thinness of the Australian options market, the bid ask spread is usually very high which reduces the possible returns, and has to be factored in with any study of options.
I first traded options in 1991 and on and off ever since. I've made good money from trading them. I've lost heaps at other times
bye
I've often recommended ...
It is the definitive book on all the possible strategies. It is not a cheap book, nor an easy read, however if you really wish to become involved in options, then you need to spend the time reading it.
I agree with Y-man about the thinness of the Australian options market, the bid ask spread is usually very high which reduces the possible returns, and has to be factored in with any study of options.
I first traded options in 1991 and on and off ever since. I've made good money from trading them. I've lost heaps at other times
bye
I've done the optionetics course. It does cost about $4k, plus there's a similar amount for software (technical analysis tools and options analysis software).
So, its expensive. But its good. I'm doing OK, just trading small amounts. The good things (IMHO) are all about the support. They are things like:
- The fact that once you've attended the full seminar, you can re-attend it as many times as you want, in any location. They usually hit each capital city twice a year.
- The message boards, where you can post messages for the instructors, and they do respond.
- The trader support number, where you can get advice from a trader over the phone.
- Lots of bulletins and articles on the website.
Yeah, its expensive, and I can't compare it to other courses or books. Books probably wont give you all this, and will take longer to get there, but they arent anywhere near the same price.
You wont learn anything from the 2 hour seminar. Its just a pitch to get you to the full seminar.
I just wanted to alert you to the fact that there is an extra cost for the software at the seminar so you can make a full evaluation of the way it is.
And dont believe the hype that you can do the course and become a full time trader just with this information alone. There's much to learn, and much experience to gain before you do that. In fact, it wasnt until I went to the course for my third time that I 'got it'.
So, its expensive. But its good. I'm doing OK, just trading small amounts. The good things (IMHO) are all about the support. They are things like:
- The fact that once you've attended the full seminar, you can re-attend it as many times as you want, in any location. They usually hit each capital city twice a year.
- The message boards, where you can post messages for the instructors, and they do respond.
- The trader support number, where you can get advice from a trader over the phone.
- Lots of bulletins and articles on the website.
Yeah, its expensive, and I can't compare it to other courses or books. Books probably wont give you all this, and will take longer to get there, but they arent anywhere near the same price.
You wont learn anything from the 2 hour seminar. Its just a pitch to get you to the full seminar.
I just wanted to alert you to the fact that there is an extra cost for the software at the seminar so you can make a full evaluation of the way it is.
And dont believe the hype that you can do the course and become a full time trader just with this information alone. There's much to learn, and much experience to gain before you do that. In fact, it wasnt until I went to the course for my third time that I 'got it'.
This is very true.
One particular area we found difficulties (other than the liquidity mentioned above) was to do with OCH fees and brokerage - both of which made the break even points more difficult to achieve than in theory.
The other was execution timing. One of our biggest losses came about when we had set up a bear-call-spread. The underlying share price rocketed mid-month, and we were exercised on the close of trade for our written calls. Although the theory is that our risk was "capped" as we also held bought calls, we could not exercise them until the open of trade the next trading day - and by then the price of the share had dropped dramatically.
Cheers,
The Y-man
Great post tubs.
How long has it taken you to get your $8000 back and was this through luck or skill.
How small a trade is small?
How many trades would be in a typical day/week/month or year?
Still working on it. Just trading about one trade a week, and small. At the moment, I'm trying out what works and what doesnt. So, still well down and finding it is time consuming to get good at it.
And before anyone tells me you should paper trade first, I did that. And I'm gonna disagree with you all.
There is no substitute for real trading. Once you have real money in there, the way you approach researching a trade is so much more thorough. There is no lesson like losing money.
And before anyone tells me you should paper trade first, I did that. And I'm gonna disagree with you all.
There is no substitute for real trading. Once you have real money in there, the way you approach researching a trade is so much more thorough. There is no lesson like losing money.
Paper trading doesn't really work because you make completely different decisions when your hard earned is at risk for real. You can be as gung ho as you like when you're paper trading.
The main trick (but not only) to winning at trading (and investing) on the stock market is your own psychology. (fear and greed)
Almost anyone can learn the technicalities of trading anything over time. Then why doesn't everyone succeed?
Because they make the wrong decisions and either lose or dont make as much as they should (or could). Usually sell winners and keep losers. Its that old psychology thing again.
And regarding losing money teaches you like nothing else. I agree completely. I lost a sh!t load before i learnt how to make money on the market. I consider that the price of my education.
The main trick (but not only) to winning at trading (and investing) on the stock market is your own psychology. (fear and greed)
Almost anyone can learn the technicalities of trading anything over time. Then why doesn't everyone succeed?
Because they make the wrong decisions and either lose or dont make as much as they should (or could). Usually sell winners and keep losers. Its that old psychology thing again.
And regarding losing money teaches you like nothing else. I agree completely. I lost a sh!t load before i learnt how to make money on the market. I consider that the price of my education.
Paper trades also do not give you the full appreciation of liquidity and arbitrage. The trading on a thinly traded option can be significantly affected by a "home trader" dumping a huge order in.
Cheers,
The Y-man
I've done a three day course and don't apply the techniques taught but I am a more knowledgeable investor than I was so it's hard to say it was a waste. The problem I have with writing covered calls (the tactic taught, prolly) is that you are still exposed to severe corrections, such as we have just had, but the call buyer pockets the profit on the rebound. I'm looking at my screen now and I'm almost back where I was on Dec, 31. Covered call writers would still be well down, I would suspect. That correction didn't surprise me by the way. Us bears just don't know when the bad stuff will occur.
Any "two hour course" could only be a sales pitch but knowledge is never a burden and there is money to be made. This is an old thread and the particular "course" will have come and gone. Did you go Sailor?
Any "two hour course" could only be a sales pitch but knowledge is never a burden and there is money to be made. This is an old thread and the particular "course" will have come and gone. Did you go Sailor?
Nuh! Read the book you loaned me instead. Twas a great read...thanks.
