Like the RBA I guess. Rates stay steady.
Interest Rates to Drop?
- Thread starter HomeBuyAU
- Start date
Like the RBA I guess. Rates stay steady.
During the "super profits" debate I didn't pick up that the miners were refusing point blank to tip into the tin.
It was the 40% off the top, which was tougher than some South American dictatorships impose, which they thought outrageous, and I agree.
I didn't pick up that they were vehemently opposed to a reasonable tax, levied on a non-discriminatory basis.
Kevvi's and Julia's taxes were set in concrete in spite of the fact that miners were a steady employer while their, and wheat and wool prices languished barely above cost of production. At those times they do not explore or expand but they did keep digging.
Mining is highly cyclical so any tax on their good times should have implied support during the bad. The tax regime for farmers allows for this with generous averaging provisions unavailable to ordinary b'men and miners.
A common attack\defence is to simply say we agree to paying something (i.e. agree in principal) but just disagree on the specifics say the rate for instance. It looks like your amenable rather than disagreeable to a tax but fundamentally they acheive their goal which is to prevent being taxed.
Every industry that does well gets charged extra, the miners just happen to be strong enough to tell the government to go get f&cked. Dont be so naive to think they are about to go broke, or they feel hard done by... if given half the chance they would force lower taxes, thats the capitalist way and to suggest otherwise is pure ignorance or just gullible.
I am not defending the government or their policies they are an indefensible incompetent lot, I am just calling a spade a spade. Personally the final straw in this argument was when the miners said the tax will shift jobs overseas.. really? you will carve out a chunk of the earth float it to Indonesia and mine it there?
Its amazing how easy the sheep can be herded to the slaughter, smiling all the way...
Every industry that does well gets charged extra, the miners just happen to be strong enough to tell the government to go get f&cked. Dont be so naive to think they are about to go broke, or they feel hard done by... if given half the chance they would force lower taxes, thats the capitalist way and to suggest otherwise is pure ignorance or just gullible.
I am not defending the government or their policies they are an indefensible incompetent lot, I am just calling a spade a spade. Personally the final straw in this argument was when the miners said the tax will shift jobs overseas.. really? you will carve out a chunk of the earth float it to Indonesia and mine it there?
Its amazing how easy the sheep can be herded to the slaughter, smiling all the way...
Soon after that BHP spent a shipload of money buying a shale gas producer in the US. That money would have developed Olympic Dam.
I'm not defending them because I believe the miners must be reigned in. But there is fairness and due process to be adhered to.
And please don't insult me by calling me naïve unless you want a fight. I don't cop crap from people half my age.
Lol, ok so let me this straight, the govt anounced their plans.. and BHP held an emergency meeting and said theres more tax to pay guys lets buy a random shale producer in the US....
Is this your suggestion? or is it infinitely more likely that regardless of the govts plans on tax, their decision to buy a shale producer was made many many many months before based on a completely different set of reasons\concerns?
all im saying lets cut through the BS.. because theres been a whole lot of it going around on this topic.
Is this your suggestion? or is it infinitely more likely that regardless of the govts plans on tax, their decision to buy a shale producer was made many many many months before based on a completely different set of reasons\concerns?
all im saying lets cut through the BS.. because theres been a whole lot of it going around on this topic.
....and an unstable country with a dictator is a good place to invest money? Even if your assertion is true, god forbid we should ration our resources rather than blowing the family jewels in one dash (and creating economic problems for ourselves to boot).
Resources are finite, Australian minerals are easy and cheap to mine, has a stable economy, a good legal system, good ports in easy reach of the main market (unlike Brazil) and well educated workforce. If BHP want to head off for a few years and exhaust resources elsewhere, be my guest. They'll be back and it would take the peaks and troughs out of the Australian economy anyway.
Thanks for listing all of the vested interest cliches in one spot for us though. Next you'll be telling us house prices only go up.
Sunfish, we have had our differences and squables but you cannot be honestly be telling me with a straight face, that a) minerals are plenty and everywhere, b) its easy to simply shift operations like mining willy nilly..
These are all the amazing statements the mining industry has dished out and people actually beleived...
These are all the amazing statements the mining industry has dished out and people actually beleived...
I saw a guy on TV last night who knows exactly where rates are heading next.
Whilst some experts were shown saying: we will see 2 more drops before the year's out, another saying two more HIKES before the year is out,
Next guy said 'we will see rates go up, and down over the long term
Whilst some experts were shown saying: we will see 2 more drops before the year's out, another saying two more HIKES before the year is out,
Next guy said 'we will see rates go up, and down over the long term
You misread me. You cannot move an existing mine but you can choose the country where you open your next.
And an unstable place with a dictator isn't one of them which is why miners will shun Aus under labor.
The original RSPT was 40% off the top of sales. If they merely annexed 40% of the company the gov would at least be shouldering 40% of the costs and risks. Rudds proposal was over the top, even for Sth Americans and Africans. Mongolia is only after a fraction of that, and they have an awful lot of copper and other stuff easily railed into China, who will build the rail line for them.
Hmmmm, perhaps Australia should look at some sort of overage system whereby the miners pay the citizens of Australia a kind of "profit rent" in boom times. That way there could be a reallocation of super profits from the few to the many and ensure industries affected by factors such as a high exchange rate caused by this boom receive support to protect jobs long term. That way, perhaps we won't all have to move to Perth (god forbid) and we'll still have something left in 20 years time other than large holes in the desert.
But wait - hasn't someone has already proposed such a scheme.
Seriously, why would you vote for Abbott? The only issue with the MRRT is that it doesn't go far enough and Gillard dropped her knickers to gain breathing space when she knifed Rudd.
why focus on miners? why not any company? at least miners actually do something and take risks, unlike the big fat taxpayer backed banks. how about a tax on all companies? we could call it "company tax"? and unlike personal taxes, we could make it a flat rate, so that the more you make the more you pay.
then rob all the direct and indirect taxes to spruce up all the streets of sydney and subsidise lawyers and cafes and we are well on the way to being a nation of smarts!
....and an unstable country with a dictator is a good place to invest money? Even if your assertion is true, god forbid we should ration our resources rather than blowing the family jewels in one dash (and creating economic problems for ourselves to boot).
Resources are finite, Australian minerals are easy and cheap to mine, has a stable economy, a good legal system, good ports in easy reach of the main market (unlike Brazil) and well educated workforce. If BHP want to head off for a few years and exhaust resources elsewhere, be my guest. They'll be back and it would take the peaks and troughs out of the Australian economy anyway.
Thanks for listing all of the vested interest cliches in one spot for us though. Next you'll be telling us house prices only go up.
Australian minerals are easy and cheap to mine,
really? may go grab a few gold bars myself if it's so easy
has a stable economy,
if you call random and discrimating taxes part of a stable economy, followed by an attack on the megarich. check for reds under the bed I say
a good legal system,
let's not indulge too much. our legal system is just a very profitable market in itself. Justice goes to those with the biggest wallets.
good ports in easy reach of the main market (unlike Brazil)
yet to be built and the money has been ripped out and sent to sydney so don't count on this one
and well educated workforce.
in 1975 perhaps
what's this? other countries have resources too?
http://www.news.com.au/business/rio-doesnt-fear-china-slowdown/story-e6frfm1i-1226290204037
http://www.news.com.au/business/rio-doesnt-fear-china-slowdown/story-e6frfm1i-1226290204037
So no substantive arguments against my points then, just glib remarks.
Because miners don't own the resources, they have a lease allowing them to mine the resources. If the value of the mineral goes up, why shouldn't the owner of that resource share in the profit?
If you own a retail store and the tenant is trading extremely well, you quite often have a profit or turnover rent clause. Why not mining?
We are only talking about "excessive" profits that weren't envisaged by either party when they signed the contracts. As the government has the ability to change the goal posts for the good of society, good on them.
My understanding is that NSW and Victoria have subsidised the West in the past through the GST take, subsidies etc at federal level. Now its your turn to put into the tin. When you have feck all left to take out of the ground in 20 years time, we'll throw you a bone again.
applies to most businesses. miner's aren't given gold nuggets - there are costs and risks to get it. If interest rate margins widen, why shouldn't we all share in the banks rising profits? it's the same ridiculous logic.
just slug everyone relentlessly then because retailers get charged on turnover as part of their business model that they sign up to.
thats why we have a flat rate tax. who envisaged the CBA ever getting this big? slug em. And Coles and Woolies - slug em. If you have money punitive taxes are yours. take from the productive and reallocate to the nonproductive, it's the labor way
My understanding is that NSW and Victoria have subsidised the West in the past through the GST take, subsidies etc at federal level. Now its your turn to put into the tin. When you have feck all left to take out of the ground in 20 years time, we'll throw you a bone again.
not my understanding, the resource states have always subsidised the south east. I dont really mind but if you dont invest in infrastructure then dont expect growth and output
I think if you view my points in "relative" terms, that is, relative to other resource rich areas of the world, they are all sound postulations.
I guess another way to look at it is if Australian minerals become more expensive to dig out of the ground then the mining companies would look to other areas of the world. Which would be a capitalist way. Australian wages are high, even more so in the mining industry.
I believe offshore oil and gas companies are already paying something similar to a super profits tax and that hasn't slowed down the work load, if anything it increased.
