Investment Property Planners

[van75]

Hi

I am looking to buy my first IP, and am considering to go through investment property planners. So far I have talked to two of them, ARPP (Australian Residential Property Planners) and a group called Love Property which is part of a bigger company called ARK financials.

Has anyone had any experience with them or similar companies/agencies?

I am aware that they are paid (either directly or indirectly) by the developers, but they both claim they only deal with reputable developers and aim to work for the investor, and to have extensive research material to support their recommendations.

Any comments/ideas very welcome.

Thanks in advance.

 

[alexlee]

Van, exactly how will you know whether what they're showing you is a good investment? Do you have enough knowledge to evaluate their research?

What are you expecting to get out of this? Are you planning on building a portfolio? If so, shouldn't you at least pick up some knowledge (go out and see a few properties, read a few property books) first?
Alex

 

[van75]

Yes I have done my own research as well, been to seminars, read magazines, googled the web... OK I haven't seen any properties yet, but am planning to start doing so. ARPP is also offering to take me to Brisbane to see a couple of their property sites (I live in Sydney).

My goal is to start a property portfolio. I have good equity in my current home so I think I'm in a good position to start.

I have talked to mortgage brokers as well, so I understand how my financials would work to maximise tax benefits. ARPP also offers to set me up with an independent financer (and they stress that these guys are independent) to asses my situation as well.

So - no I'm not shopping blind, but I am hoping to be able to use these agencies' expertise (provided that they are trustworthy) in recommending me which areas to look into.

 

[Harris]

ARPP is also offering to take me to Brisbane to see a couple of their property sites (I live in Sydney).

that offer will make any serious property investor run in the opposite directon - full speed.

I would suggest you spend a bit of time here in the forum going through a lot of posts on similar topics and perhaps do a lot more due dilligence than you have already done.

Harris

 

[cgw]

Hi Van,
if you have gone to seminars, read the good books (Jan Somersoft's, Michael Yardneys, Ed Chans), if you stay on this forum and ask questions, why do you need someone else to help you build your property port folio.
You need to get a good team that are all Proerty Investors themseleves that understand it and they will assist you.
Mortgage Broker that can structure the loans properly.
Acct that knows all the questions that come up, and answers them better than the ATO call centre.
Property Manager - that does their job and you don't have to be constantly telling them what to do.
Where to Buy - Property is a long term investment, it always goes up long term. Buy near water or inner city to get the equity working faster, so you can use the equity to buy your next IP.
I am only a newbie myself, and have learnt this from this forum and the books.
Pls don't get sucked in to any of the Property Planners, Property Investors etc, etc, I have spoken with them about 5 times, and never went with them, as I can always do it for about 5-15K cheaper myself. Try it, get all their figures, and do your own sums for you doing it yourself. You will be surprised.
I hope this is convincing enough. If you have any questions, anything, ask on here, and you get lots of opinions and help for free, thanks to all the more experienced Investors on here.
Cheers

 

[van75]

Thanks for the supportive comments guys.

OK I agree I need to do a lot more research myself as well. I will give these ARPP guys a go (with no commitment), go to Brisbane and look at their properties - after all it is part of my research and a good opportunity to look at Brisbane market. But I will use this forum to gather expert opinions.

Cheers!

 

[jingo]

Thanks for the supportive comments guys.

OK I agree I need to do a lot more research myself as well. I will give these ARPP guys a go (with no commitment), go to Brisbane and look at their properties - after all it is part of my research and a good opportunity to look at Brisbane market. But I will use this forum to gather expert opinions.

Cheers!

Be careful Van, they can be very persuasive if you go on a tour with them. Refuse to buy anything on this trip.

Regards Jason.

 

[Humphrey]

I've heard it said that when you go to a seminar you should leave your credit cards at home - so that can't make additional purchases (more expensive seminars, dvd's etc) when you are in a hyped-up state. You should go home, cool down, and then make a decision.

I think that the same advice applies to anyone who is being flown up from Sydney to Queensland to "just" look at property. Be very careful because they're not flying you up for fun. I thought this sort of thing had died off years ago.

 

[van75]

Of course! I'm not an impusive shopper anyway

 

[marg4000]

Van, I would strongly suggest you DON't go to Brisbane with any of these investment advisers.

You say "ARPP also offers to set me up with an independent financer (and they stress that these guys are independent) to asses my situation as well." If they refer you, then the financer is NOT independent. Who is paying for this?

I live in Brisbane. If the deals were that good, they would be snapped up by locals.

These organisations are very well organised and slick, you run the risk of being subjected to strong pressure and urged to sign.

Why Brisbane?

Brisbane prices have increased strongly in recent years, and it is being suggested here in Brisbane that there are better buys in Sydney.

Why not look in your own backyard?

Contact a few agents and have a look at properties in a suburb that you can afford.

If you desperately want Brisbane, then buy yourself a cheap airfare and come up yourself for a few days. Arrange appointments beforehand with agents and they will take you to see properties.

These scams have been running for years, and entire developments are sold to interstate purchases for higher prices than locals will pay, sometimes up to $30,000 more. There is a name for this - "two tier pricing" - which has been the subject of government investigations, but as quickly as they close them down others start up.

I have never heard of the companies you mention and they may be entirely honest and above board, but sadly past experience suggests extreme caution.

Marg

 

[van75]

BTW I forgot to mention, they are not paying for the trip - I am paying for the airfare. I am prepared to go because I am really curious about Brisbane market.
I don't want to start another discussion in this thread about where to buy, but from what I gather from various sources, certain suburbs in Brisbane are meant to be booming.

 

[alexlee]

Certain suburbs EVERYWHERE are meant to be booming.
Alex

 

[cgw]

Go Van, go all the way, but don't buy. Let them use up all their time on you, along the way you may learn a few things. I remember back in 2001, I had to pay $250.00 up front, and they would show me all about investing etc, show me around Adel. But they would only deal with me if my partner came along with. As they needed to conn both of us at once. I warned them, my partner is not interested in looking around, he will just sign where I tell him to. So, partner came along bored out of his brain looking at the new property developments in Adelaide. That night he called them sharks and said, you can do it yourself, get ya money back. You do it, I'll sign anything, and we are now onto IP no 4, He still watches footy on Sat, and I go IP shopping.
Better than going to Westfield and buying more crap I don't need.

 

[van75]

Hmm... thanks Marg for the caution. I'll think about it further.

I thought Sydney would be more out of my budget, but yes I will consider here as well. It's just living in Sydney and seeing the number of high-rises that go up here, it's very hard NOT to think that there is already an over-supply.

 

[van75]

Better than going to Westfield and buying more crap I don't need.

LOL!

Actually my partner is also coming to this trip (if we do go). I'm sure he will support me and stop me from signing anything.

 

[alexlee]

I thought Sydney would be more out of my budget, but yes I will consider here as well. It's just living in Sydney and seeing the number of high-rises that go up here, it's very hard NOT to think that there is already an over-supply.

What IS your budget? And why highrises? Why not older houses in the outer suburbs?

If you think Sydney is oversupplied because all you see is high rises, 1) you're missing a very big chunk of the market, and 2) you are more likely to be taken in by spruikers, because they're going to take you to areas in Brisbane where it DOESN'T seem to be filled with highrises, and you're going to think Brissy is so much better than Sydney.

Maybe the areas you live and work in have lots of high rises (inner west? Lower north shore? And you work in the city?). That's certainly not the whole city of Sydney. Take a drive through some areas you've never been to and see what you think.
Alex

 

[van75]

My budget is around 400-500K. When I said high-rises I didn't mean that I *prefer* them. In fact quite the opposite, from what I learnt high-rises meant high strata fees and maintenance costs.

However from what I learnt as well, you get most tax benefit (depreciation) from buying new. Older houses also have the risk of high maintenance costs.

That is another thing I want to ask the experts here (I will start another thread) - what are pros and cons of units vs. house & land, and old vs. new.

 

[alexlee]

My budget is around 400-500K. When I said high-rises I didn't mean that I *prefer* them. In fact quite the opposite, from what I learnt high-rises meant high strata fees and maintenance costs.

However from what I learnt as well, you get most tax benefit (depreciation) from buying new. Older houses also have the risk of high maintenance costs.

That is another thing I want to ask the experts here (I will start another thread) - what are pros and cons of units vs. house & land, and old vs. new.

You have a budget of 400-500k, you don't think you can afford to buy a decent house as an IP is Sydney, and you see Sydney as horribly expensive or just a big jungle of high rises. Are you honestly saying you don't think you can find a decent house for an IP for 400-500k? If that's the case, my advice is NOT to go to Brisbane with those advisors. You won't need much convincing. They'll just take you somewhere where there AREN'T highrises, and you'll buy because you think it's so much better than Sydney, but that's because you're ignoring hugh swaths of Sydney.

You're not seeing my point, are you? There are PLENTY of houses <400k, even <300k that may make good investment properties. Old doesn't necessarily mean high maintenance costs. New have other risks: namely building defects may not be apparent when they're new. What areas have you been looking at in Sydney?
Alex

 

[Humphrey]

Oversupply in Sydney?

What's all this talk about oversupply in Sydney?

You virtually can't find any rentals in some parts of Sydney. Do you mean building that are under construction?

 

[van75]

You're not seeing my point, are you? There are PLENTY of houses <400k, even <300k that may make good investment properties. Old doesn't necessarily mean high maintenance costs. New have other risks: namely building defects may not be apparent when they're new. What areas have you been looking at in Sydney?
Alex

OK I take your point. I need to do much more research myself in Sydney. I said at the beginning that I'm only just starting, and my initial question was simply, whether anyone had heard or dealt with IP planners, and the answers have been obviously very negative, so OK I will proceed with extreme caution.

I live in Surry Hills, so far I've only looked at inner city areas, which look expensive and oversupplied because of the number of highrises, but I'm not so naive to think that there is no greater Sydney.