Invoices and revoking a QLD management agreement?

[The Chaser]

Hi all

Could anyone tell me whether Qld Property Managers are legally required to provide to landlords copies of invoices paid on behalf of the landlord?

Our PM received over time multiple invoices from a company that did some regular work at our IP for a month back in Nov 2011. All invoices were paid and copies provided with the relevant monthly statement, except for one invoice. We had good reason to suspect that the missing invoice was either a doubled up charge or had been allocated to our property by mistake. After 6 months of chasing them, the PM has now confirmed that they have lost the invoice and have been unable to obtain a replacement copy because the service provider had since gone out of business.

As we have been unable to substantiate the charge and have been waiting for close to 6 months for the invoice, we understandably (in my view) had requested that the money be refunded to our account this month given we are approaching the EOFY and until such time as an invoice is produced and we can substantiate the charge. The PM has refused and said it's not their problem.

The PM stated that they try to file all invoices and provide copies to landlords, but can't guarantee that some won't go missing due to the volume that they receive...isn't this part of the job? They feel they are not liable due to the service provider not getting back to them with a replacement invoice and that it is that company that should be paying us back the money. However, when I made the initial query in Dec 2011 the company was still trading and they have obviously provided an initial invoice when payment was made. The PM are the ones that took months to contact them despite my repeated queries, by which time the company had stopped trading.

So basically the PM has put all responsibility on to everyone else, despite the fact that they are the ones who lost the invoice! This PM has gone downhill in recent months and further staff changes have made things worse, so based on this latest response and numerous other service failings to date, I intend finding a new PM and moving on. Under the QLD management agreement we are required to give 90 days notice. However I added to the agreement when we all signed that this notice period did not apply in the case of a breach.

Is the failure to provide an invoice a breach of our Qld management agreement? Is it perhaps a breach of clause 10 of the REIQ Essential Terms & Conditions, that states "the agent must account to the Lessor in writing for all monies received, paid or appropriated in accordance with this agreement"?

If anyone can point me in the right direction regarding my rights to revoke the agreement without being forced to wait 90 days (or the minimum 30 days by mutual agreement) until the mngt agreement can be declared terminated I would be very grateful.

Thanks

 

[marg4000]

Have you spoken to the owner of the RE agency? Unless it is a very small business the PM is usually an employee.
Marg

 

[Angel]

Ouch, what a pain!

At the end of last year I had enough of a manager and started phoning around the neighbourhood. The new PM offered to do all the paperwork involved in changing over and my new manager arranged something with the old managers so I didnt get stuck with 90 days of further torture from using the first PM. See if you can find a new manager who will do this for you.

Perhaps your current managers are over the whole real estate industry thing and will be glad to have you terminate the agreement (ours were) and they wont stand in your way.

Best wishes

 

[The Chaser]

Have you spoken to the owner of the RE agency? Unless it is a very small business the PM is usually an employee.
Marg

Hi Marg

Thanks for the reply. I haven't spoken to the owner, however the PM's reply stating they weren't willing to refund the money was copied to the owner also, so he is aware of the situation.

I haven't replied to the PM's email as yet, but was intending addressing my reply to the owner directly and suggesting that given the adversarial nature of the relationship that it might be in all parties best interests if we terminate the agreement and move on. There have been a number of other service issues and I think it is beyond salvaging.

Being an intertstate investor, I am also reluctant to put my faith in them to protect my interests adequately. I have other property interstate and enjoy much better service from my other PM's. My main focus now is how to end the agreement and move on asap, so I can step back from the need to micro manage the IP.

Angela

 

[The Chaser]

At the end of last year I had enough of a manager and started phoning around the neighbourhood. The new PM offered to do all the paperwork involved in changing over and my new manager arranged something with the old managers so I didnt get stuck with 90 days of further torture from using the first PM.

Hi Angel

I must admit this is what I am hoping can happen. It was certainly the case with a NSW IP we had a couple of years ago, but the NSW management agreement didn't have a revocation clause equivalent to the current Qld one. The Qld one states that where we are on a "continuing appointment" (we are) we have to give 90 days notice to revoke unless we agree with the agent to a shorter notice period - but even then it says it must not be less than 30 days.

Was the property you mention above in Qld?

Thanks
Angela

 

[russellpeter]

Hi Angel

I must admit this is what I am hoping can happen. It was certainly the case with a NSW IP we had a couple of years ago, but the NSW management agreement didn't have a revocation clause equivalent to the current Qld one. The Qld one states that where we are on a "continuing appointment" (we are) we have to give 90 days notice to revoke unless we agree with the agent to a shorter notice period - but even then it says it must not be less than 30 days.

Was the property you mention above in Qld?

Thanks
Angela

Hi Chaser

you will have to give notice in QLD but when you choose a new agent most will manage it for free for the first 3 months so you are not out of pocket.

 

[Angel]

Sorry, should have clarified. Yes, it was in Qld. I kept paying agency no1 for the first 30 days then after that it went to agency no2.

 

[The Chaser]

you will have to give notice in QLD but when you choose a new agent most will manage it for free for the first 3 months so you are not out of pocket.

Hi Russell

Thanks for the reply. So just to clarify, does that mean that my IP can be transferred almost immediately to a new PM, but that I continue to pay the old PM for 90 days (or for the minimum 30 days if mutually agreed)? [Hence the reason the new PM manages the IP for free initially.]

Also referring back to my original post, would you be able to tell me whether Qld Property Managers are legally required to provide to landlords copies of invoices paid on behalf of the landlord? Additionally whether the failure to provide an invoice is a breach of our Qld management agreement? Is it perhaps a breach of clause 10 of the REIQ Essential Terms & Conditions, that states "the agent must account to the Lessor in writing for all monies received, paid or appropriated in accordance with this agreement"?

The reason I ask is that our management agreement includes an amendment to clause 4.2 stating that the notice period does not apply in the case of a breach. Essentially I could then revoke the appointment and move on fresh to a new PM without the need to reward the old PM's bad service with 30-90 days of further management fees.

Thanks
Angela

 

[boomtown]

Always change the notice period to 30 days when you sign up. You can do it in handwriting directly on the form and initial next to it.

 

[russellpeter]

Hi Russell

Thanks for the reply. So just to clarify, does that mean that my IP can be transferred almost immediately to a new PM, but that I continue to pay the old PM for 90 days (or for the minimum 30 days if mutually agreed)? [Hence the reason the new PM manages the IP for free initially.]

Also referring back to my original post, would you be able to tell me whether Qld Property Managers are legally required to provide to landlords copies of invoices paid on behalf of the landlord? Additionally whether the failure to provide an invoice is a breach of our Qld management agreement? Is it perhaps a breach of clause 10 of the REIQ Essential Terms & Conditions, that states "the agent must account to the Lessor in writing for all monies received, paid or appropriated in accordance with this agreement"?

The reason I ask is that our management agreement includes an amendment to clause 4.2 stating that the notice period does not apply in the case of a breach. Essentially I could then revoke the appointment and move on fresh to a new PM without the need to reward the old PM's bad service with 30-90 days of further management fees.

Thanks
Angela

Hi Angela

yes you should be able to transfer immediately. if i am taking over a management normally takes about 3 days to finalize. correct about the fees.

I believe they would have to give you a copy of the invoice. but would need to check up on it. Office of fair trade will have the correct answer. but best practice says you should always give the owner a copy of all invoices.

it sounds like you have a good argument to move on with out having to pay the management fees out.

good luck and let me know if I can help in any way.

 

[The Chaser]

Hi Angela

yes you should be able to transfer immediately. if i am taking over a management normally takes about 3 days to finalize. correct about the fees.

I believe they would have to give you a copy of the invoice. but would need to check up on it. Office of fair trade will have the correct answer. but best practice says you should always give the owner a copy of all invoices.

it sounds like you have a good argument to move on with out having to pay the management fees out.

good luck and let me know if I can help in any way.

I spoke to OFT but they referred me to REIQ. REIQ told me they believe there is no statutory requirement to provide invoices, but it was certainly best practice. They did suggest that it could be put in a (future) management agreement as a condition that the PM is to provide copies of all invoices paid on behalf of the lessor. If only I had done that with the current PM!

Thanks for your help.

 

[mattysavager]

Hey All,

I realise that this question has been answered, but just though I would add:

The REIQ (Real Estate Institute of Queensland) is more or less a 'club' that Real Estate Agents join. They provide standard forms, info help etc, for a fee. They are not a statutory body, and don't have the power to action any complaints/feedback, other than to punish their non-conforming members.

The QLD Office of Fair Trading are the ones who look after licensing, regulations, trust accounts etc. They're the ones worth phoning for advice in these circumstances.

PMs should obviously provide invoices for expenses on your account, such as in this case, and as you've said, they provided all but one. The Management Agreement that you would have signed would usually indemnify the agent for liability in this such circumstance. The agent is essentially acting as an introductory service between yourself and the contractor.

It is my understanding that the business operator (the contractor I mean) must provide invoices for 5-7 years (can't remember which) even if the business has been wound up. If it's a large amount that you're presumably wanting to claim on tax, might be worth asking the Office of Fair Trading about that obligation.

Matt