Is health insurance worthwhile?

crispy,

Most GP's would have sent you off to a private clinic for an MRI not a public hospital - that's more normal practice.

It's very likely you would have been bulk billed too. Any gap would be very small.

And if those test combined showed you were at risk of significant liver damage you would be admitted for a biopsy pretty quickly, as you would have had a more definitive result by then.

Even if you felt you feel you want to go private you could do so as a public patient - medicare pays the bulk of it, exclucing hospital stay.

My family have done this as a public patients about 3 times. Total costs varied from around $600 (a few years ago) to $1600 last year. ?close to the cost of the gaps.

Last doctors visit for our family was son seeing his private paediatric gastro who we didn't choose but who we were referred on to without discussion (cost $55) - public patients tend to use both systems now.
 
I can't figure where you stand, Weg. Is having private health insurance recommended by you, or is it a waste of time?

I just think private is poor value for money.

I think I have a good idea on how good/bad the system is, and know the cost of using private as a public patient (taking into account gaps, what Medicare pays, etc).

And I think some people here don't have much of an idea of how things actually work... (not trying to be a smart A) that's all :).
 
I just think private is poor value for money.

I think I have a good idea on how good/bad the system is, and know the cost of using private as a public patient (taking into account gaps, what Medicare pays, etc).

And I think some people here don't have much of an idea of how things actually work... (not trying to be a smart A) that's all :).

I've got NO idea how this stuff works (and I reckon I'm far from alone) Weg, so with your insider understanding I reckon go ahead and be as smart *** as you like.

So, should we bother with private health cover (apart from the commie reason of us here almost all being wealthy enough and so not being middle class health-welfare parasites)? As I said, I've got private cover because (1) I can afford it, (2) the tax system indicates I should, and (3) the tabloids tell me I'll be fed to cockroaches if I go anywhere near a public ward, so why the hell not? Would I be wiser to cancel it and 'self insure' by investing the premiums in other areas?
 
There's no way I'd tell anyone which way they should go, but I can say the public system not anywhere near as bad as what people are making it out to be.

Infact the public system is very good apart for elective surgery times in SOME areas.

If that's the deciding factor then one can get around this by using the private system as a public patient for little more $$ than someone with private cover (although you'd probably be ahead many thousands over they years anyway).

Mental health, disability and dental is not so good - I have top extras for these.
 
There's no way I'd tell anyone which way they should go, but I can say the public system not anywhere near as bad as what people are making it out to be.

Infact the public system is very good apart for elective surgery times in SOME areas.

If that's the deciding factor then one can get around this by using the private system as a public patient for little more $$ than someone with private cover (although you'd probably be ahead many thousands over they years anyway).

Mental health, disability and dental is not so good - I have top extras for these.

Thanks for the insights, Weg. It seems that the best thing to do is hold private cover as a back-up, give support to adequate taxation for a strong public health system, and steer clear of the Hells Angels and anything they're selling. Can do!
 
Most doctors and nurses who can afford it will be privately insured. The very workers who staff the public hospitals would under no circumstances or under only very extreme circumstances choose to be treated in the public institutions in which they work.You won't find many alcoholics, druggos, homeless dregs sitting in a private hospital causing havoc next to you whilst you are trying to recover from your illness/surgery. However, the public hospital is truly a zoo for all who wish to come. So it is a bit like flying first class versus cattle class for the insured versus the non-insured.
 
Most doctors and nurses who can afford it will be privately insured. The very workers who staff the public hospitals would under no circumstances or under only very extreme circumstances choose to be treated in the public institutions in which they work.You won't find many alcoholics, druggos, homeless dregs sitting in a private hospital causing havoc next to you whilst you are trying to recover from your illness/surgery. However, the public hospital is truly a zoo for all who wish to come. So it is a bit like flying first class versus cattle class for the insured versus the non-insured.

Can you let us know specifically which hospitals you have found to be like this? You seem to have an extremely negative view of public hospitals, but I wonder if you have any personal experience to back that up. I dont think its reasonable to make such extreme statements without some evidence.

I personally think private insurance is a good thing to have, but nevertheless, I have not experienced the conditions which you seem to think is so common, either as a patient, a carer, or a staff member.

Using your plane analogy, I would say you do get more creature comforts in first class, and you dont need to wait in queues..... but the level of safety is exactly the same as for those flying in cattle class.
Same in hospitals... I get better meals and faster service in a private hospital, but the overall level of care is fairly much equivalent.

There are also some areas where public hospitals are superior.... eg in life threatening situations, and where you need to see multiple specialists/ teams.
 
Friday and Saturday night after midnight CAN be busy (but not always) and so can certain peak periods like winter.

I was surprised each time I went to ED with mum at how many of the beds were taken up with elderly people who had fallen. Very few classic ER type "emergencies".
I thought the nursing home that mum was in was generally too quick to send mum to the ED when she had a fall. Honestly , apart from take scans and make sure there was no serious injury, what could the ED do? It was just clogging up the system most of the time. Strangely enough, the one time she probably did need to go in, they didnt send her. She died a week later when she fell again as a result of a bleed in the brain.
The other side of the coin were the families trying to get their elderly parents admitted to hospital for either respite or to make it easier to get a nursing home placement. I think there was at least one of these situations each time we went to the ED.
I think its a reflection of the poor quality of our aged care services. now, this is an area where I think china's description of the public hospital system is probably more relevant!!

Mental health, disability and dental is not so good - I have top extras for these.

What disability cover do you get from extras? I find there is almost nothing in private health insurance for that.
 
What disability cover do you get from extras? I find there is almost nothing in private health insurance for that.

Oops... I've been dashing in and out the house all day... very busy, so brain not fully engaged.

I have extras for dental, but I put mental health, disability and dental in the poor government funding basket.

china, what do you plan to do if you're in a car accident, or have a medical emergency that a private ED can't deal with, and the ambos send you to a public one?

Hope you've made it very clear to everyone that you don't want to be sent there.

Edit: penny, fractures to the hip are very common in the elderly after a fall. Sometimes it doesn't appear serious because they appear to be in little pain and can still walk (usually with a limp), but still needs to be ruled out if suspected.
 
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If I had a true emergency and was taken to a public emergency department, then I would not be in a position to make a decision. There would not be much that I could do about this as true emergencies means that others are making decision on my behalf. If I had any say in the matter, I would wish to be treated in the private sector as much as practicable.
 
Most doctors and nurses who can afford it will be privately insured. The very workers who staff the public hospitals would under no circumstances or under only very extreme circumstances choose to be treated in the public institutions in which they work.You won't find many alcoholics, druggos, homeless dregs sitting in a private hospital causing havoc next to you whilst you are trying to recover from your illness/surgery. However, the public hospital is truly a zoo for all who wish to come. So it is a bit like flying first class versus cattle class for the insured versus the non-insured.

China,

Just following up on Penny's query above that you seem to have missed - Have you actually got any first-hand knowledge, hospital experience or god-forbid evidence for any of the claims above? Or are you also speaking here about what you'd 'wish' if you were in a medical professional's shoes? (Not to say you preferences aren't valid, but it'd help to know what is opinion-based guessing and what is observation-based judgement.)
 
Try the following news articles for an insight into the crisis that is known as the public health system.

If these stories don't put you off, then I can show you at least a few dozen others. These are not merely media beat ups but probably the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ed-to-go-private/story-e6freuzr-1226046536298

or

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ugs-black-market/story-e6freuy9-1226105533160

or

http://ahha.asn.au/news/cancer-patient-abandoned-royal-north-shore-hospital-11-hours

or

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...d-her-broken-hip/story-e6freuy9-1226248778906
 
Glad I've only had dealings with the 'other' public hospitals where everything runs lovely and there's barely any waiting :)

Dental though, having been twice in the last year. Ugh. Terrible. Years and years to wait publically and 3 months wait privately, although I did get in within 48 hours for emergency. Expensive when you don't have insurance of course.
 
Try the following news articles for an insight into the crisis that is known as the public health system.

If these stories don't put you off, then I can show you at least a few dozen others. These are not merely media beat ups but probably the tip of the iceberg.


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...d-her-broken-hip/story-e6freuy9-1226248778906

You'll be glad to know Google says Ina Cameron got her surgery but personally if I was 103 years old I would expect to go to the bottom of the queue for surgery. Seems to me the older I get the quicker time passes.

http://macarthur-chronicle-camden.whereilive.com.au/news/story/camdens-ina-cameron-has-surgery-for-fractured-hip/

"Ina Cameron, the 103-year-old Camden resident at the centre of a health spat, was recovering from surgery on a fractured hip at Campbelltown Hospital on Monday.

Mrs Cameron’s niece, Camden councillor Eva Campbell, was told by doctors her aunt’s two-hour operation was a success.

Doctors inserted a plate and pins into Mrs Cameron’s femur bone.

Mrs Cameron had been waiting at Campbelltown Hospital for surgery since last Monday.

Mrs Cameron made statewide headlines last week when Cr Campbell questioned why her aunt had been removed from the trauma surgery list last Wednesday.

Cr Campbell told media her aunt had been cleared for surgery last Wednesday after being treated for internal bleeding caused by ulcers which forced doctors to cancel her surgery for that day.

Health Minister Jillian Skinner said the surgery was delayed because of her medical condition."

*With respect to hospital bed numbers, i know a lot of them could be freed up if their were more aged care beds available. Here in South Australia we have a shortage of aged care beds which has been exacerbated by a drive to improve aged care conditions.
Some of the older style accommodation has been removed as large wards with beds in rows have been demolished to make way for separate rooms. Still more and more will need to be built regardless of Government initiatives to support programs that enable the elderly to stay in their own homes for longer, now that their relatives seem less willing or their circumstances make it difficult look after them.
 
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Try the following news articles for an insight into the crisis that is known as the public health system.

If these stories don't put you off, then I can show you at least a few dozen others. These are not merely media beat ups but probably the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ed-to-go-private/story-e6freuzr-1226046536298

or

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ugs-black-market/story-e6freuy9-1226105533160

or

http://ahha.asn.au/news/cancer-patient-abandoned-royal-north-shore-hospital-11-hours

or

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...d-her-broken-hip/story-e6freuy9-1226248778906

Ah yes. The tabloid press, of course! Which, existing for the sole purpose of convincing working class people to vote conservative, has never been known foy anything but non-partisan, non-alarmist, credible analysis of public institutions. :cool:
 
If I had a true emergency and was taken to a public emergency department, then

consider yourself lucky.

you have no chance in a private hospital, even in one equipped with an actual emergency department. not many do. even fewer have an Intensive Care.

the thread discusses private health insurance and i find your posts add nothing as you have no first hand experience to substantiate any of your views to a system that is indispensible.

emergencies overflow because the patients know to see an ED doctor for a cough/UTI is free at 10pm and often they get a starter pack of antibiotics, for free. but to see a GP after 5pm they will most likely need to pay out of pocket $15-40 plus cost to fill a script. cat 4 or 5 patients. that is what overwhelms the ED.

but if you were triaged category 1 or 2 you will be seen within minutes.

i worked in a trauma centre ED where all night MVAs kept arriving plus the usual cardiac/respiratory sickies and by 5am none in the department had even had any food or water for 8-9 hours working straight. the triage nurse just went to the waiting room and told the people there waiting for free amoxyl to leave.

as to whether there are enough surgeons it is more complex than the college not training enough. there is a surplus in metro but a severe shortage in rural areas. many highly qualified (i am talking about 10+ years of training after medical school with overseas experience in some of the most challenging subspecialties) are struggling to find a public hospital post in metro melbourne for example. public waiting list is not a result of surgeon shortage. more to do with beds.

i am in the health profession and I have private insurance. but my baby was born in a public hospital. The treatment was nothing short of fantastic. obstructed labour and 45 min later baby delivered by C/S. but one day i might use my private health insurance.

in my opinion it is not a matter of definitely one or the other. we are lucky enough to have both systems in this country available to most people. base your decisions on your own financial situations. and then understand how both systems work and choose where you want to be treated.
 
just also remembered this, real story:

a friend's grandfather was taken to a private hospital exactly 12 years ago and asphyxiated after choking on some large tablets. we were travelling in Africa together at the time and he had to fly back to Melbourne for the funeral.

he was told there was no medical person in the private hospital at the time.

much has changed as most private hospital now employ a second year resident on nights.

if there is no difference in waiting, i would choose to be treated as a private patient in a public hospital everytime. it is safer. and you get to choose your surgeon who will operate on you and not the trainee.
 
consider yourself lucky.

you have no chance in a private hospital, even in one equipped with an actual emergency department. not many do. even fewer have an Intensive Care.

the thread discusses private health insurance and i find your posts add nothing as you have no first hand experience to substantiate any of your views to a system that is indispensible.

emergencies overflow because the patients know to see an ED doctor for a cough/UTI is free at 10pm and often they get a starter pack of antibiotics, for free. but to see a GP after 5pm they will most likely need to pay out of pocket $15-40 plus cost to fill a script. cat 4 or 5 patients. that is what overwhelms the ED.

but if you were triaged category 1 or 2 you will be seen within minutes.

i worked in a trauma centre ED where all night MVAs kept arriving plus the usual cardiac/respiratory sickies and by 5am none in the department had even had any food or water for 8-9 hours working straight. the triage nurse just went to the waiting room and told the people there waiting for free amoxyl to leave.

as to whether there are enough surgeons it is more complex than the college not training enough. there is a surplus in metro but a severe shortage in rural areas. many highly qualified (i am talking about 10+ years of training after medical school with overseas experience in some of the most challenging subspecialties) are struggling to find a public hospital post in metro melbourne for example. public waiting list is not a result of surgeon shortage. more to do with beds.

i am in the health profession and I have private insurance. but my baby was born in a public hospital. The treatment was nothing short of fantastic. obstructed labour and 45 min later baby delivered by C/S. but one day i might use my private health insurance.

in my opinion it is not a matter of definitely one or the other. we are lucky enough to have both systems in this country available to most people. base your decisions on your own financial situations. and then understand how both systems work and choose where you want to be treated.

Thanks Evan.

SO what you are saying is ignore the stores in the media and consider your needs, location, age and risk.

If you are a motorbiker on the weekend, then your risk is higher than a golfer.
If you live near overloaded hospital then consider private.

That is answer.

regards, Peter 14.7
 
consider yourself lucky.

you have no chance in a private hospital, even in one equipped with an actual emergency department. not many do. even fewer have an Intensive Care.

the thread discusses private health insurance and i find your posts add nothing as you have no first hand experience to substantiate any of your views to a system that is indispensible.

emergencies overflow because the patients know to see an ED doctor for a cough/UTI is free at 10pm and often they get a starter pack of antibiotics, for free. but to see a GP after 5pm they will most likely need to pay out of pocket $15-40 plus cost to fill a script. cat 4 or 5 patients. that is what overwhelms the ED.

but if you were triaged category 1 or 2 you will be seen within minutes.

i worked in a trauma centre ED where all night MVAs kept arriving plus the usual cardiac/respiratory sickies and by 5am none in the department had even had any food or water for 8-9 hours working straight. the triage nurse just went to the waiting room and told the people there waiting for free amoxyl to leave.

as to whether there are enough surgeons it is more complex than the college not training enough. there is a surplus in metro but a severe shortage in rural areas. many highly qualified (i am talking about 10+ years of training after medical school with overseas experience in some of the most challenging subspecialties) are struggling to find a public hospital post in metro melbourne for example. public waiting list is not a result of surgeon shortage. more to do with beds.

i am in the health profession and I have private insurance. but my baby was born in a public hospital. The treatment was nothing short of fantastic. obstructed labour and 45 min later baby delivered by C/S. but one day i might use my private health insurance.

in my opinion it is not a matter of definitely one or the other. we are lucky enough to have both systems in this country available to most people. base your decisions on your own financial situations. and then understand how both systems work and choose where you want to be treated.


Your view of Australian healthcare has clearly been distorted by working in the public health system. After working in a public institution for any period of time, you demonstrate all the negative stereotypical features of any public servant. You come to accept substandard outcomes as excellence. Ineptitude, incompetence, minimal productivity are all hallmarks of our public health system and many of our public organisations. The reason why there are long waiting lists in our public hospitals is not a lack of resources. Rather, it is substandard productivity assisted by a culture of always doing the minimal. The nursing culture is always one of watching the clock and making sure they get their teabreaks. This is typical of any unionised workforce.

The government finds it convenient to blame a lack of resources for public hospital scandals and disasters but in reality, far greater sums of money are spent on public health than the private sector. Yet, there is less output.

Despite the fact that only 40% of the population is insured, there is a far greater volume of elective surgery being performed in the private sector than the public sector. This is purely due to inefficiencies in the public system where it is very difficult to sack under performers or non-performers. With the private hospital, which are clearly profit making organisations, inefficient staff can be eased out far more easily. The culture is also different. In the private hospital, the patient is the customer and is treated as a valued person. In the public hospital, the patient is another drain on supposed scarce resources and must be treated as such.

The private health system is infinitely better for everything except for immediate emergencies such as trauma. You are comparing Ferrari with second hand bicycles. Private hospital intensive care units are better staffed and equipped than most public intensive care. In Australia, most private hospitals have an intensive care unit.

Many private hospitals reject patients with golden staph infections. In contrast, if you spend long enough time in a public hospital, you are guaranteed some form of infection. So unless you had no choice, I would stay well away from public hospitals. You will not see James Packer or Frank Lowy sitting in the waiting room of a public emergency department with the great unwashed.
 
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