Is health insurance worthwhile?

[Belbo]

Okay. . . . The HR Nicholls Society?

 

[pennyk]

Your view of Australian healthcare has clearly been distorted by working in the public health system. After working in a public institution for any period of time, you demonstrate all the negative stereotypical features of any public servant. You come to accept substandard outcomes as excellence. Ineptitude, incompetence, minimal productivity are all hallmarks of our public health system and many of our public organisations. The reason why there are long waiting lists in our public hospitals is not a lack of resources. Rather, it is substandard productivity assisted by a culture of always doing the minimal. The nursing culture is always one of watching the clock and making sure they get their teabreaks. This is typical of any unionised workforce.

The government finds it convenient to blame a lack of resources for public hospital scandals and disasters but in reality, far greater sums of money are spent on public health than the private sector. Yet, there is less output.

Despite the fact that only 40% of the population is insured, there is a far greater volume of elective surgery being performed in the private sector than the public sector. This is purely due to inefficiencies in the public system where it is very difficult to sack under performers or non-performers. With the private hospital, which are clearly profit making organisations, inefficient staff can be eased out far more easily. The culture is also different. In the private hospital, the patient is the customer and is treated as a valued person. In the public hospital, the patient is another drain on supposed scarce resources and must be treated as such.

The private health system is infinitely better for everything except for immediate emergencies such as trauma. You are comparing Ferrari with second hand bicycles. Private hospital intensive care units are better staffed and equipped than most public intensive care. In Australia, most private hospitals have an intensive care unit.

Many private hospitals reject patients with golden staph infections. In contrast, if you spend long enough time in a public hospital, you are guaranteed some form of infection. So unless you had no choice, I would stay well away from public hospitals. You will not see James Packer or Frank Lowy sitting in the waiting room of a public emergency department with the great unwashed.

Sorry, but this is total rubbish.... you have admitted that you have no experience of either system, and are basing your opinion on newspaper articles.... your opinion is distorted.

I have never felt like a number in the public hospital system.

There are plenty of reasons to use a public hospital apart from trauma....cancer care is one. Any sort of health care where you need extensive allied health involvement is another. Another is when you need multiple specialists. Rehabilitation. Paediatric health care.... I can give many many more examples.

Nearly all of the health care professionals I have experienced in both private and public services have cared about what they do and have never been "clock watchers". Of course, there are those who dont live up to that.. but they are definitely in the minority.

I think its really important to have private health insurance and the choice that brings. But our public system is also important, and from what I have experienced, it provides a mostly excellent service. Australia is very fortunate to have the combination of both.

I think before you continue to make the claims that you do, you should have something to back up your claims.

 

[evan1875]

China you assume a bit. I work both sectors and it is way more lucrative in the private for me. I am well aware of the differences in productivity but I don't share your negative view on the public health system. It is not without its problems but it is indispensible.

Where are the doctors going to come from if there is no where to train? Where are the patients going to go in the West side of Melbourne for example where 40% covered is more like 5%? There is no meaningful comparison if you talk about output. One system trains doctors, nurses, allied health; the other doesn't. They are funded differently. They have different purposes.

Would you mind posting a list of Sydney private hospitals and *the ones with and ICU on this thread?

Honestly I don't know what rough experience you had in a public hospital or where you got the attitude from. Belbo I am starting to think you might be right.

 

[china]

China you assume a bit. I work both sectors and it is way more lucrative in the private for me. I am well aware of the differences in productivity but I don't share your negative view on the public health system. It is not without its problems but it is indispensible.


Definitely, I agree that the public health system is indispensable. There are people that fly first class and some that travel cattle class.



Where are the doctors going to come from if there is no where to train? Where are the patients going to go in the West side of Melbourne for example where 40% covered is more like 5%? There is no meaningful comparison if you talk about output. One system trains doctors, nurses, allied health; the other doesn't. They are funded differently. They have different purposes.


True, a lot of us just do not wished to be trained on when we are sick or our life hangs in the balance. I wish to be operated upon only by experienced professionals not wannabes.


Would you mind posting a list of Sydney private hospitals and *the ones with and ICU on this thread?

St. Vincents private
Prince of wales private
Gosford private
Westmead private
North Shore private
Norwest private

Most major sydney private hospitals have ICU as they carry out cardiac and neurosurgery.


Honestly I don't know what rough experience you had in a public hospital or where you got the attitude from. Belbo I am starting to think you might be right.

I think that just as there are public health warnings on every cigarette packet, there should be public health warnings at the entrance of every public hospital - "Do not enter if you value your life"

 

[china]

Sorry, but this is total rubbish.... you have admitted that you have no experience of either system, and are basing your opinion on newspaper articles.... your opinion is distorted.

I have never felt like a number in the public hospital system.

There are plenty of reasons to use a public hospital apart from trauma....cancer care is one. Any sort of health care where you need extensive allied health involvement is another. Another is when you need multiple specialists. Rehabilitation. Paediatric health care.... I can give many many more examples.

Nearly all of the health care professionals I have experienced in both private and public services have cared about what they do and have never been "clock watchers". Of course, there are those who dont live up to that.. but they are definitely in the minority.

I think its really important to have private health insurance and the choice that brings. But our public system is also important, and from what I have experienced, it provides a mostly excellent service. Australia is very fortunate to have the combination of both.

I think before you continue to make the claims that you do, you should have something to back up your claims.

Most cancer operations in this country: breast cancer, bowel cancer, kidney cancer, prostate cancer are performed in the private sector. Did you see Kylie Minogue at your local public hospital having her breast off when she underwent breast cancer treatment? Was Frank Lowy treated at his local public hospital when he developed cholangitis recently? Did Kevin Rudd have his gallbladder operated on at a public hospital?

There is clearly a pattern here. Anyone who can afford two cents and knows anything about private versus public health system would fight strongly against being treated in the public system. I can guarantee that no CEO of a public hospital nor a minister of health would be treated at a public hospital unless it was a dire emergency.

Unless you enjoy waiting for your cancer to grow whilst you are spending decades on the public waiting list and for some trainee surgeon to practise on your life threatening cancer, there is no reason to go to a public hospital for cancer surgery.

 

[sanj]

I think that just as there are public health warnings on every cigarette packet, there should be public health warnings at the entrance of every public hospital - "Do not enter if you value your life"

obvious troll is obvious

why are you guys humouring him/her?

 

[pennyk]

Most cancer operations in this country: breast cancer, bowel cancer, kidney cancer, prostate cancer are performed in the private sector. There is clearly a pattern here. Anyone who can afford two cents and knows anything about private versus public health system would fight strongly against being treated in the public system. I can guarantee that no CEO of a public hospital nor a minister of health would be treated at a public hospital unless it was a dire emergency.

Unless you enjoy waiting for your cancer to grow whilst you are spending decades on the public waiting list and for some trainee surgeon to practise on your life threatening cancer, there is no reason to go to a public hospital for cancer surgery.

Well, I'm not going to keep arguing with you. But there is alot more to cancer treatment than surgery. And when you need 3 or 4 different specialists (oncologist, radiation oncologist, palliative care), you wont get that service in a private hospital. You also wont usually get radiation in a private hospital. Cancer care centres in the public hospitals provide excellent holistic services, where you can be referred between the different specialists that you need to see, without any fuss.
I have been treated for cancer for the past 2 years, and I've never had to wait for any treatment, more than a week or so. I receive a mixture of public and private services, and both are excellent.
Your claims are so completely opposed to my experiences, both as an inpatient and an outpatient.
But since you are becoming more and more exaggerated in your claims, I think it is fruitless to argue any further.

 

[Belbo]

obvious troll is obvious

why are you guys humouring him/her?

Morbid curiosity, for the most part I guess.

You see, on the one hand I find myself trying to figure out whether this is a humblebrag -

Anyone who can afford two cents and knows anything about private versus public health system would fight strongly against being treated in the public system.

While on the other hand I'm just floored by the total lack of humility displayed in the next sentence -

I can guarantee that no CEO of a public hospital nor a minister of health would be treated at a public hospital unless it was a dire emergency.

I think we may have a live one here, Sanj.

 

[Peter 14.7]

obvious troll is obvious

why are you guys humoring him/her?

Agree, after reading his first post I though:

1. what a load of BS
2. that is 3 minutes I will never get back

Peter 14.7

 

[Nemo30]

I totally agree with Penny.

My mum received treatment for cancer for 5 years. She had private health insurance, however most of her care was in a public hospital - and she received fantastic care. Her initial surgery was performed by one of the top cancer surgeons - as a public patient.

There was one significant benefit of her private health insurance, which was at the very end of her treatment she had a private suite in a hospice where her family could stay overnight. We wouldn't have had that in a public hospital. I know she was thankful she had private insurance.

 

[Tony3008]

I have just had my first experience of claiming on private health insurance (other than routine dental and optical) - a wisdom and molar tooth under total anaesthetic. I have private health insurance with extras ($200pm - late joiner) which I thought covers everything: anaesthetist charged $400 which I expected to get back. Medicare paid 75% of the scale fee for his work, $153, Medibank then paid a further $54. On querying why, Medibank said they only pay the difference between the Medicare rebate and the scale fee. Am not sure how they will treat the surgeon's fee - handed in the bill at the same time and have got nothing back so far - but if private insurance is going to leave you paying most of the cost then I wonder whether it's just better to self insure? Is my experience typical?

 

[Hoffy]

but if private insurance is going to leave you paying most of the cost then I wonder whether it's just better to self insure? Is my experience typical?

Just depends if the insurance cost is less than the extra medicare levy you wil pay if you don't have it.

On a side note, be aware that most funds will let you prepay next years annual premium before the end of this financial year. This will let you get the (up to) 30% rebate for one more year.

 

[Belbo]

Just as a slightly bizarre sidenote, all taxpaying Australians will be delighted to hear that the Future Fund has recently increased its tobacco industry shareholdings to some $225M -

THE Future Fund's stake in the tobacco industry has swelled by $78 million, an increase of more than 50 per cent, sparking criticism of the fund for investing in companies that are suing the government.

The taxpayer-owned fund, which also holds shares in nuclear arms companies, yesterday revealed its tobacco shares were worth $225 million in February, up from $147 million at the end of 2010.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...nt-soars-50-20120523-1z5lm.html#ixzz1vmt8GbRd

I bet Nicola Roxon is just thrilled about this wonderful combination financial and medical health news.

 

[Aaron_C]

Maybe it went up in value rather than purchasing more?

 

[Belbo]

Maybe it went up in value rather than purchasing more?

So what would that matter? Are you intentionally trying to sound stupid?

 

[wylie]

Just depends if the insurance cost is less than the extra medicare levy you wil pay if you don't have it.

On a side note, be aware that most funds will let you prepay next years annual premium before the end of this financial year. This will let you get the (up to) 30% rebate for one more year.

That is a great idea. I have paid my premiums upfront for the past few years and will be calling them today to organise to do it before the end of June (not due until July).

Thanks for the tip! It is something I would not have realised on my own.