Is this legal/ethical?

Its known as "commission rage"!

Agents sue all the time regarding this sort of thing. In NSW now it is common for contracts of sale to have special conditions inserted so that the purchaser warrants they were introduced to the property by the agent named on the front page. This way if there was a dispute the buyer would wear the extra commission.
 
wylie said:
Or maybe you could just pay the commission to the agent who (I assume) took you through the house. If the amount of agent's commission is the difference between "overpaying" and a "screaming bargain" you seem to be the one with blinkers on.

And "introducing" you to the property is more than you looking at in on the internet. It is attending an open house or being taken to the house by an agent. Seriously, how would you feel if that was you and your buyer did the sneaky thing behind your back. I'm sure you would be fine with losing the commission, wouldn't you? :rolleyes:

It always amazes me how some people bang on about how unethical some agents are perceived to be, yet sneaking behind their back and robbing them of what they are contractually entitled to is seen as being just fine. Pfffft!!!
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I agree. Let me put it another way- if the transaction has to be concealed doesn't that say something?

redwing said:
I've read of it happening recently
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Easy eoungh for a RE to do. Slow day at the office so I will check up that listing I had a few months ago that is off the market/sold to see who the new owner is and whether they appear in my sign in book /diary for people shown through. If yes then off to the lawyer in my pocket from conveyancing referrals to unleash the dogs of law.

Dazz said:
Agreed wylie - it is their only source of revenue, I'd expect them to chase it down pretty hard.

Ethically and morally the potential Buyer is well out of order.

Legally of course, that's a whole different kettle of wax.
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Depends on your view of ethics. If the agent failed their duty by "buying the listing" and listing the property too high- well then they are not the effective cause of sale. A signed listing does not automatically guarantee ethical/moral high ground.
As for Legal? It is for the buyer- at least in Qld. The seller may experience some consequences- and in my view probably rightly so. No different than trying clothes on in a boutique and then ordering them cheaper online .
thepeoplesagent said:
Commission rage? I wonder how you would react for not getting paid for the job you do?

Can I call it “wage rage”?
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You can but I think commission rage reflects on the sense of entitlement many agents have even though they may not properly perform their job (many wage workers suffer the same attitude). The difference is a wage worker gets $20/hr where as a commission worker only gets $8k upon the sale and nothing if no sale. Different set of rules old bean!
 
thepeoplesagent said:
Commission rage? I wonder how you would react for not getting paid for the job you do?

Can I call it “wage rage”?
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I might have been a bit harsh when I said it was ethical but it definitely is possible and it is up to the Vendor if they want to pursue an offer put to them outside of the Contract.

The OP has put in her offer whilst under the contract of the REA. If the Vendor doesn't want to sell at that price they don't have to. It is of no interest to the OP how/when/where the REA gets paid - that contract is between the REA and the Vendor.

I doubt in this situation that the Vendor will accept an offer outside of the Agreement. If the difference was that small then they would usually wear the loss. Depending on the price of the house and how much discount they negotiated with the REA it would be more prudent for them to sell within Contract.

Anyway I'm biased, I've already cost one REA their commission on a property this year so I should stay out of this.
 
Usually the commission liaibility runs for 30-90 days post expiry of the exclusivity period. If you feel so inclined, purchase through a trust/corporate trustee etc to disguise the introduction but it will still be suspect if it transfers so soon after the property ceases its listing.

As others point out will raising your offer make the deal unviable? The commission doesn't come out of your pocket.
 
Thanks for all the replies.
I found this document on the West Australian Department of Commerce website:
http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/consu...Buyers_and_Sellers_P/Real_estate_fees_neg.pdf

Page 9 and 10 is of relevance, particularly these parts:
There are five main types of Authority to Sell.
These are:
1. Exclusive Listing
• One agent is given exclusive authority to sell for a specified period, usually 60–120 days, or for any period to which you agree. There is usually provision
in an exclusive listing contract to also designate a non-exclusive period for which you will have the choice to agree or refuse to pay the agent a selling fee if the property is sold after the exclusive period but before the non-exclusive period ends.
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A Written Authority to sell exclusively will usually also contain several
important options from which you must explicitly choose, and then initial.
Essentially, for an exclusive selling agreement you have the option to agree or not agree to pay:
• The selling fee to the agent if the property is sold after the 'exclusive rights period'.
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Some food for thought.
 
Well - perhaps it's just me but if you have to conceal what you've done then it's not ethical. You are ripping someone off of their income.

At the end of the day, all of us only have our integrity. If you can live with always wondering at the knock on the door, or the phone ringing, then go for it ... otherwise just go down the honest path.
 
So basically it's viewed as not ethical but is probably completely legal as long as the transaction is made outside of the agents exclusivity period. And as a few have already mentioned, keeping the whole thing secret from the agent would be pretty difficult.

I don't see how it's much different to going into a retail store to try on clothes then going home and buying them off eBay at a lower price.
 
deecee28 said:
So basically it's viewed as not ethical but is probably completely legal as long as the transaction is made outside of the agents exclusivity period. And as a few have already mentioned, keeping the whole thing secret from the agent would be pretty difficult.
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Yes i believe that's the gist of the matter.
 
If you know that the vendor may sell to you for less because you convince him/her to sell outside of the legal agreement he/she signed, but you also know that it is highly probably the agent will pursue payment from the (possibly) unknowing vendor via legal channels, would you really do it?

It might be "legal" for you to bypass the agent but the vendor is bound by the contract and that is a legal document that can be pursued.

You have heard the answers but continue to ask. You know the answers now. Will you still do it?
 
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