Joys of Subdivision ... @##$$&%*%:-(

[barfly]

Our first sub division project ...

In 2009 purchased a 975sqm block with existing dwelling in a regional Vic town. Plan was to split into two titles; renovate front dwelling; build or sell rear block.

Fast fwd to 2013 ... planning permit issued after 18 months along with some $ignificant engineering drainage plan$/condition$.

Whilst building several new pits/laying new pipes (ie. plumbing works agreed, signed up & commenced) we discovered a major storm water system running thru middle of new/rear proposed house & garage location;

Plumbers discovered it when connecting (new pipes) to rear outgoing pit; had we known this prior we could have saved '000s on eng/drawing plans/design by at least reusing this pipe or even reviewing whether to continue sub div.

Council / engineering plans did not show this or maybe the drawings were wrong!?

We did all the due diligence - council planners, engineers, local (major) surveying company, plumber site inspection when quoting, etc...

Should have just engaged a leak detector, scour the whole block and find what was really underground ... !

 

[INVSTOR]

That sux! Do you have any pictures? I'm in the process of purchasing a property to sub-divide which has some unknown pipes. It's not sewer or septic so maybe it's drainage like yours. All the water corp and council searches have bought up nothing. My husband is a commercial plumber, not residential and has no idea what it is. So what is the correct procedure to have it sorted up front what it is? A leak detector? So you can build on top of it? Mine used to have a garage on top (asbestos) and concrete slabs.

 

[barfly]

That sux! Do you have any pictures? I'm in the process of purchasing a property to sub-divide which has some unknown pipes. It's not sewer or septic so maybe it's drainage like yours. All the water corp and council searches have bought up nothing. My husband is a commercial plumber, not residential and has no idea what it is. So what is the correct procedure to have it sorted up front what it is? A leak detector? So you can build on top of it? Mine used to have a garage on top (asbestos) and concrete slabs.

I've attached a pic using council's original file/doco. Site is No. 21;
Council docs show light blue line going in/out of ppty, rear RHS corner/easement.
Orange boundary is proposed new dwelling/garage location.
Dark blue shows new engineering works we were required to do (and pay for!) collecting water/sewer from existing front and new dwelling - as part of subdiv conditions. What we found (after works began / almost completed) is shown in red.

We're not complaining ... atm ... as still progressing with title split process. Issue of 'unknown pipe' to be sorted when we prepare plans for new building permit. Will try and consider moving this pipe ... but as more recent discussions informed us .... 'old earthen ware storm water pipe more than 50 years old ... and we don't know where it starts/ends - council may not allow the move. I suspect (dread) the light blue line/pipe across other neighbouring boundaries cuts thru their middle too ...!!

... yep, it certainly sux!

 

[Shahin_Afarin]

How much did the engineer plans, certification, etc cost you?

 

[Scott No Mates]

Neighbours old stormwater system - if there is no easement, cut it off (ooops). If it needs reinstatement, they will need to pay for an easement or divert it to the front.

The current position may impact on your future development plans. Unless they are sewer (which they do not sound like they are), then they have no right to be there unless there is some restriction on your title.

 

[barfly]

How much did the engineer plans, certification, etc cost you?

Shahin, eng plans cost $2,500. Pipeworks cost significantly more >$20K. Certification still ongoing but estimate to total $40K by time we visit titles office.

Our particular subdivision also included a second driveway to existing front dwelling avoiding issues such as body corp. However, we still had to create a new easement for common pipework.

Existing crossing had to be upgraded to current specs at same time - another condition for the split.

 

[barfly]

Neighbours old stormwater system - if there is no easement, cut it off (ooops). If it needs reinstatement, they will need to pay for an easement or divert it to the front.

The current position may impact on your future development plans. Unless they are sewer (which they do not sound like they are), then they have no right to be there unless there is some restriction on your title.

That was our first thought too, Scott ... however the plumbers doing the 'small works' (ie. infrastructure) then referred on to surveyors/planners - who may now be obliged to report to council engineers.

There are currently no title restrictions for this unknown pipe. If we did decide to terminate it then we may experience future flooding issues ... still researching our options. Size of pipe suggests that it is not just for next door use.

We live two hours away from the site so could not be there suggest they wait to inform all and sundry ... !

 

[INVSTOR]

I've attached a pic using council's original file/doco. Site is No. 21;
Council docs show light blue line going in/out of ppty, rear RHS corner/easement.
Orange boundary is proposed new dwelling/garage location.
Dark blue shows new engineering works we were required to do (and pay for!) collecting water/sewer from existing front and new dwelling - as part of subdiv conditions. What we found (after works began / almost completed) is shown in red.

We're not complaining ... atm ... as still progressing with title split process. Issue of 'unknown pipe' to be sorted when we prepare plans for new building permit. Will try and consider moving this pipe ... but as more recent discussions informed us .... 'old earthen ware storm water pipe more than 50 years old ... and we don't know where it starts/ends - council may not allow the move. I suspect (dread) the light blue line/pipe across other neighbouring boundaries cuts thru their middle too ...!!

... yep, it certainly sux!

Thanks for that. My husband thinks the pipes on our is an old bore, I hope so.
It is certainly more risky buying devt blocks rather than a straight forward house. This is the first time in 15 yrs I've bought another potential devt site after paying for a 4 unit site which was only 3. RP data and council records came up as 1856. After purchase and a visit to council they said they had found an error as one map said 1856 and another 1586. After survey it ended up being 1568. Back then blocks were selling for $40,000 each, so that sucked that I'd paid for an extra block.