Kids & Stairs

[Sushiboy]

Hi,

We have an applicant for our IP, a young couple with one 2 year old and another due in about a month.

The property is a 3 story townhouse with plenty of stairs - my wife is expecting and we moved out just for this reason.

We have landlord insurance (public liability of $10M).

Is it worth accepting the application or should I seriously knock these ppl back because of the kids/stairs combo??

Edit - I'm posting this in the legal issues section as I'm not too keen on being sued if a kid takes a tumble down a flight of hardwood stairs.

Cheers,

Sushi

 

[BayView]

Throw in a couple of stair gates/fences for them.

Tax deductible.

 

[craigb]

Accept it as they might lock them up on the balcony any way lol

 

[rugrat]

I think this is more an ethical / moral question.

I would probably put in a couple of safety gates and if they still want to rent, then let them.

 

[Sushiboy]

Yeah, I don't want to have any accidents on my conscience. Having said that, the house is quite stylish and putting in child safety gates will kinda destroy the look.

 

[boods99]

Sushiboy,
I really dont think you should worry too much as long as you have the required insurance in place. If stairs were an issue, then there would be no two story houses for rent for fear of litigation. Two story, three story, twelve story, they are all staircases, so I dont think it will matter. A tenant's child could slip on a single step down to a sunken lounge and injure themselves.

Boods

 

[Petal]

Throw in a couple of stair gates/fences for them.

Tax deductible.

It annoys me to have to say this (as society has got to this stage) but I bet if the worst happened and the tenants tried to sue and it all ended up in court it would go against you that you put in stair gates/fences for the tenant as it would be seen that you thought the place was sooo dangerous you felt the need to try and make it safer.

Again let me stress I do not for one minute think the stairs thing is an issue, as noted in other posts, what about the heaps of two stories etc. I am just saying isn't it sad that by trying to do the right thing could easily come back on you

 

[Token Funder]

It annoys me to have to say this (as society has got to this stage) but I bet if the worst happened and the tenants tried to sue and it all ended up in court it would go against you that you put in stair gates/fences for the tenant as it would be seen that you thought the place was sooo dangerous you felt the need to try and make it safer.

Again let me stress I do not for one minute think the stairs thing is an issue, as noted in other posts, what about the heaps of two stories etc. I am just saying isn't it sad that by trying to do the right thing could easily come back on you

As a landlord you have an obligation (like any property owner) to ensure the property is safe for those who occupy or visit the property. As long as the stairs are in sound condition and built to code, it's difficult to envisage circumstances whereby you would find yourself at risk.

Arguably, you would be at greater risk in providing stair gates as they are more likely to "fail" than the stairs themselves.

It's down the the parents to child-proof the home. It's down to you to make sure the property is well maintained and meets all relevant regulations (pool fencing being a pertinent example where kids are involved)

 

[Sushiboy]

It annoys me to have to say this (as society has got to this stage) but I bet if the worst happened and the tenants tried to sue and it all ended up in court it would go against you that you put in stair gates/fences for the tenant as it would be seen that you thought the place was sooo dangerous you felt the need to try and make it safer.

Again let me stress I do not for one minute think the stairs thing is an issue, as noted in other posts, what about the heaps of two stories etc. I am just saying isn't it sad that by trying to do the right thing could easily come back on you

Exactly - I've had experience with this kind of OH&S issue in the workplace, and I know that you can be shafted either way - if you ignore it , you're screwed, and if you have an OH&S review and make changes that are later deemed insufficient, you're also screwed.

Thanks for the advice, will have a think about it.

 

[Perp]

It annoys me to have to say this (as society has got to this stage) but I bet if the worst happened and the tenants tried to sue and it all ended up in court it would go against you that you put in stair gates/fences for the tenant as it would be seen that you thought the place was sooo dangerous you felt the need to try and make it safer.

I suspect that's right, Petal, unfortunately. I'd not say or do anything which indicates that you think it's an unsafe place for children to live. I wouldn't knock back the tenant on these grounds, either. If you did, then another tenant has a child visitor injured, I can just see them suing you and arguing that you were particularly negligent because you "knew" that the property was dangerous for children, as evidenced by your previous refusal to let children live in the property.

Your responsibility as a landlord is to ensure that the property meets building code, which I assume that it does. If so, then I'd leave the rest to your public liability insurance.

I'd be interested to hear what a lawyer thinks, though. letiha works in a similar area of law; I'll PM her and alert her to this thread.

 

[Aaron Sice]

Yeah, I don't want to have any accidents on my conscience. Having said that, the house is quite stylish and putting in child safety gates will kinda destroy the look.

CHILDREN destroy the looks of houses with their technicolour toys everywhere.

a cupla temporary safety fences won't hurt anything except the tenants amenity.

 

[quoll]

The little fence / gates are tempory, they expand to fit the gap and lock at that size so they are reasonably secure.

We moved into our house when the kids were 2,6,7 they work out how to get up and down the stairs, they are also very bouncy.

I think you will find drunk adults are just as much of a risk, frail oldies, people with crap legs, the generaly unfit. Make sure your insurance is in place and stop stressing so much.

my 2c
Graeme

 

[BayView]

It annoys me to have to say this (as society has got to this stage) but I bet if the worst happened and the tenants tried to sue and it all ended up in court it would go against you that you put in stair gates/fences for the tenant as it would be seen that you thought the place was sooo dangerous you felt the need to try and make it safer.

Again let me stress I do not for one minute think the stairs thing is an issue, as noted in other posts, what about the heaps of two stories etc. I am just saying isn't it sad that by trying to do the right thing could easily come back on you

Yes; it's a bloody disgrace how things are heading.

Incidentally, our PPoR is tenanted currently, is 2 storey and they have a 10 year old and (now) 5 year old - been living there for nearly 3 years, so when they moved in the little one was....little.

We never even thought about the stair issue to be honest. The tenants saw it, loved it and wanted to move in.

We have insurance though.

 

[Sushiboy]

Thanks for the tips and advice. We let the tenant with kids have the property - they were desperate - current landlord sold the house they were living in and they needed a place to move to within 2 weeks. Why they waited until this late in the piece to move is anyone's guess but they have great references, pay on time and previous place is always clean.

We have the right insurance for this so we're covered and the tenants have acknowledged the risk by saying they will install safety gates.

Cheers,

Sushi.

 

[craigb]

If the stairs are up to Building standards code and you have maintained the property then their is only due dilligence on the tennents part, you can't worrie about thats stuff as it will keep you awake all nite!
Other wise you would have to wonder about , the balconys, the toaster, spiders, and snakes,

 

[letiha]

I've replied by PM

 

[letiha]

I suppose the best way to answer this would be if a mishap occured and i was advising the parent of an injured child.

The main thing would be are these stairs up to the Australian standard as was pointed out. If they are then there should be no problems. Basically kids would be treated the same as adults, even if you rented to 2 singles you would never know if they had friends come over with kids etc.

Also with the public liability insurance you have there should be no problems...unless maybe both children fell at the exact same time and both ended up being quadra plegic.

I would look at their application without thinking of the stairs. If you want some peace of mind and the house is several years old i'd get a building inspection to check that the stairs are up to par. Also just make sure you respond promtly to any maintainence requests regarding the stairs.

 

[dave99]

I think you cannot refuse to let the house to them just because they have children anyway. For any reason, safety or otherwise. As long as the stairs are built to a normal level of safety (i.e. building code), I can't see how you would be found negligent.