Large Number of Units?

Hi guys,

Wanted your opinion on investing in a unit which forms part of a large block of units.

From what I've read on Michael Yardney's books, this is not advisable.

I just wanted to know what your thoughts are, and the justifications for this.

I am currently thinking about a 2 bedroom unit which is part of a block of 41 units. The actual price of the unit is pretty good (almost $45k lower than the median unit price in the suburb) and the strata fees, potential rental yield etc are quite good.

Thanks!

A
 
Hi A

One of the main reasons why most property experts and investors recommend sticking to smaller blocks is to maximise the land value content of your investment. For example, if you purchased a unit for $300K in a block of 4 units, with a land value of $600K, then your purchase price is going to be made up of 50% land value ($600K/4=$150K). If the same land had a block of 40 units then your land value is much less at 5% ($600K/40=$15K).

Other advocates of smaller blocks would also point to other benefits ie:

lower strata fees
capacity to retain larger portion of control over BC (eg owning 2 out of 4 units in small 4xblock)
Capacity to value add is easier due to smaller no. of owners
 
The types of properties which Michael Yardney recommends I believe will hold up very well during this downturn.

They are at the cheaper end of the spectrum, so will appeal to investors as well as first home buyers (with the increased grant) - are in the more affluent suburbs in very built up areas, but have a big affordability factor as well as demand for tenants.

I reckon they should do much better than stuff in the outer suburbs, as well as more expensive inner stock if the recession really bites.

The higher land content of course the better.
 
The other issue with larger blocks is that there is always lots of competition for tenants. We used to own an apartment in a large block, and people would decide to live in the block, and then go around all the landlords with vacancies and bargain to push the price down. We found it always took 6 weeks or so to find replacement tenants, and we normally lost several to other landlords before we were finally able to sign someone up.
Pen
 
If you do decide to buy in a large block, make sure you buy one of the more desirable units.

We owned a unit for many years in a complex of 80. Ours was in a prime position, and we sourced most of our tenants from within the same complex. The manager had a waiting list of tenants in poorer positions or less desirable units who wanted to upgrade within the same complex.

Overall it performed as well as our other properties (expenses were slightly higher but so were rents).
Marg
 
If you do decide to buy in a large block, make sure you buy one of the more desirable units.

We owned a unit for many years in a complex of 80. Ours was in a prime position, and we sourced most of our tenants from within the same complex. The manager had a waiting list of tenants in poorer positions or less desirable units who wanted to upgrade within the same complex.

Overall it performed as well as our other properties (expenses were slightly higher but so were rents).
Marg

Yeah mine is 48 sqm and 3 k's to the cbd. Its in a group of 24 and only 4 of the units (the end ones) are 48 sqm whilst the other 20 are only 44 sqm which is cool.
 
Wanted your opinion on investing in a unit which forms part of a large block of units.

Another good reason not too is:
A lot of investors are growth investors i.e. they look for high capital growth so they can refinance equity out of the property to use as a deposit for the next property - and then repeat over & over.
What can happen (especially in this climate) is you get one or two units in the development that sell for "fire sale" prices i.e sell at any cost. Then what have you got? Answer: comparable sales.
A valuer would then value other units in the development along the lines of established (fire) sales in the development.
Ergo - no capital growth to get equity out to get next deposit - the plan for multiple property purchases stops dead in its tracks.
Of course if you are just getting a PPOR - do what you feel like doing.
 
also - when times arent as great as they are now for landlords, what will give your place the "edge" over the competition for tenants?

smaller blocks are better, but if you need somewhere cheap for a start-out PPOR and this fits your purchase criteria then why not? every one has to start somewhere.
 
Risk Management - Less units in the development can result in less competition for both tenants and more importantly when it comes time to sell, buyers.
 
Risk Management - Less units in the development can result in less competition for both tenants and more importantly when it comes time to sell, buyers.

This is true - however, it does not hold if you have a unit in a block of 8 surrounded on all sides by similar aged/similar designed units in blocks of 50 :)

Cheers,

The Y-man
 
This is true - however, it does not hold if you have a unit in a block of 8 surrounded on all sides by similar aged/similar designed units in blocks of 50 :)

Cheers,

The Y-man

Good point Y-man, and to that effect, I can't see any argument on this thread that doesn't hold true for any area with a high density of apartments. The discussion could just as easily be "High density living" as it could "Large number of units in one building".

Personally, I tend to take the view of most on this thread but having said that, one of my most successful purchases has been in a large unit complex. Buy after the gloss has come off the "off the plan" alure (in my case, 30% under original purchase three years earlier) and ensure the fundamentals of supply and demand, location, etc are all met. Couldn't be happier with this particular instance.
 
isn't the style of living nowadays tending toward the apartment/block accommodation?
people being more career minded, getting married later, having kids later, wanting to be close to the action - cbd - where they work and play, no hassles with where they live like gardening and maintenance issues.
not to mention actually affording to pay the mortgage or rent as the case may be.

Tim
 
Good points Tim and part of the rationale for me buying where I did. Some of the same factors have often been quoted as reasons why the 1 bed apartment market is stronger than it has been in the past. Socially, our demographics have changed quite significantly in recent decades and as a result, some of the old rules (dare i say "stigmas") have changed.

BTW Bernard Salt has quite a bit of interesting commentary on this.
 
isn't the style of living nowadays tending toward the apartment/block accommodation?
people being more career minded, getting married later, having kids later, wanting to be close to the action - cbd - where they work and play, no hassles with where they live like gardening and maintenance issues.
not to mention actually affording to pay the mortgage or rent as the case may be.

Yes, but note that not all 1br units are created equal, and we might need them of a better standard given that a greater proportion will be let to longer term or more 'professional' tenants (with higher incomes/expectations) than in the past.

I would love to write a history of 1 bedroom or single persons accommodation in the last 100 years, but my guess is that it would go something like this:

early 1900s -: Single people were often lodgers who slept in the sleepout or (in the country) lived in quarters or another house on the farm.

1920s-50s: The 'done thing' was that people of marriagable age would live with their parents until they found a partner and got married. They might live in the sleep-out of their parents house until they married. After then they'd get a deposit together for a block of land on which they might build a shack, live in that and add bits to make a house.

A lot of single people (who didn't live with their parents) lived in boarding homes or some type of serviced accommodation rather than have their own flats. These included people in 'respectable' occupations.

However some purpose-built flats for independent people were built during the Art Deco period. But especially for a young woman, living in a pace of one's own before marriage was 'racy' and not really the done thing. Also during the Great Depression larger houses were often divided into flats or maisonettes.

Late 1960s: 'Generation gap' and rising incomes made it possible for young people to move out of home, even if they weren't married. There was also a flat boom which resulted in many '6 or 12 packs' being built in many of the less prestigious inner and middle suburbs. Hence there was the money, the demand, the supply and the acceptance of strata title all working together.

60s blocks were less fancy than the Art Deco units and may not have had private courtyards or internal laundry. There'd be a parking space or carport but rarely a garage However, unlike their parents place (which may still have had a wood stove) they were all-electric.

The average marriage age then was 22 and nearly all did so people who'd be living in these flats would generally only be in there for a couple of years. Hence they could be small and poky since most residents would only be in there for a short time and the novelty of being away from the olds was great.

Elsewhere you might have had villas rather than flats. These were mostly 2br with a courtyard, but were still dominated by renters. Keep a watch on these as I believe that the demand for these (from many groups mentioned later) will outstrip supply.

Blocks of villas/units were all built by investors/developers, not individual families as is the case with houses. Hence their construction was more cyclical than housebuilding generally and there were spikes during various booms, eg early 1970s, late 1980s, early 2000s etc.

Single person accommodation in the early 2000s was funded by investors buying units in near-CBD areas and fuelled by overseas students (for the very small 1br units). CBD professionals (more likely to marry later or remain single) moved into the 'better' 1br units, however most of these are high-rise.

Population ageing, the aim for independent living and (especially) the larger number of widows will create demand at the older end of the spectrum as well.

And in the middle are the 'empty nesters', especially those who have divorced.

Hence whereas in the 60s it was mostly young singles who'd rent a 1br unit for a couple of years, now we've got a broader tenant base for 1-bedders, including 'battery hen' foreign students, young professionals, never marrieds, divorcees, empty nesters and always more seniors. The better paying end of this market is catered for by townhouses, but these are really very expensive and the two levels is bad for seniors. But the cheaper and middle end of this market is not well served, with the good quality and well located 1960s-80s villa unit being the best approximation of what is wanted.

Unfortunately the composition of recent construction has satisfied some groups (eg students) more than others. This is partly because it is more profitable to go high-rise 1br than villa 1br due to land prices.

If you were building villas you'd probably build 2br instead of 1br since the extra area of a bedroom is not that much. This has been conventional wisdom and perhaps 90% of villas are either 2 or 3 bedroom. However other things like storage and security are important for the long-term renter or buyer and a good 1br with garage/storage and a good kitchen may well be more rentable than a poky 2br without these.

Hence I can see a gap between what the market wants and what's most profitable for the developer. But if you can buy well-located older units with desired features that are at or below replacement value then I think you're on a winner.

Peter
 
I am confused at the difference between a villa and a townhouse. Could you please explain?

My understanding is as per Les' post below, ie villa is 1 level and a townhouse is 2 storey.

http://www.somersoft.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-27940.html

While 2 storey buildings are more expensive to build than 1 storey, when (i) land is expensive, (ii) a double garage and 2 bathrooms are needed, (iii) when house-sized rooms are needed and (iv) when the developer wants to maximise density then townhouses become more attractive than villas (though at a cost).

While affordable and fully adequate for singles, the typical villa offers somewhat lower standard of accommodation compared to townhouses, eg it might only have a single carport or garage, a single lounge room (no other living room eg family room), the absence of a balcony, 1 bathroom etc. However it may have more land, depending on the development.

Terry Ryder is now saying that demographics are more important than land component, so the 1br unit may be a better buy than the 4br house. Though if you're lucky you can find 1br units with quite high land components, and they're not necessarily all in posh suburbs either.

http://www.jenman.com.au/news_subscribers_item.php?id=16&Section=Reports

Peter
 
I have one in a block of 84. They are 3 storey so only a third have a nice big courtyard. It has never been vacant for more than a week in 4 years. The ground floor seems to have an advantage as it appeals to those with kids and the elderly. A bbq and outdoor setting and the size of the living area is effectivly doubled.
 
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