Living off equity - myth or reality?

This question may have been asked many times before but I know of no-one who is 'livin' the dream' so to speak and living off equity.

Does anyone here actually live off equity? Does anyone actually know people who have been living off equity? If so, i'm keen to hear others experiences as to me it remains but a concept. I know of no-one who borrows against their equity as a means of income.
 
Equity let me live

What dream is that?

I haven't been forced to get out of bed and go to a job I don't like for almost 2 years now. All bought about by being a lucky fool that got a small slice of the last property boom and the increase in property equity it delivered. Technically I do have a job though, as I can't sit on a couch and maintain my present income. Though most of my family wonder when I'm actually going to get a 'real' job, so by that definition I haven't had a job for a very long time! In the mean time I will continue to attempt to make money from doing something I enjoy... So equity definitely let me live, even if I'm not exactly living of it 100%!

One area I have been looking at this week is deflation, which is a flattener to a generic LOE plan relying on resi property appreciating. Probably not that likely but it's a scenario to consider perhaps.

I have been asking myself what would happen if my bank decided to ask me to repay my mortgages with them at a time when property was getting whacked? I understand the 'all money clause' pretty much allows this. How many of us are 'wealthy' thanks to the graces of their credit provider and the assumption that asset values will hold up in a robust manner in a crisis?

My financial goals have me owning a PPOR entirely debt free.
 
Yes, did so for three years, but decided to go back into the workforce a couple of years back.

Partly due to boredom, partly due to kids (can't do all that I want to do until they're older), partly to socialise more and partly because I don't want to eat equity too much at this point (prefer to grow the base more).

I've talked about it before, as have others, so please follows Ani's advise.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Does anyone here actually live off equity? Does anyone actually know people who have been living off equity?

yes.

Mark

reality for quite a number of clients
Mark & Rolf.

Just wondering if the people you know that are LOE have any other income stream coming in?

I.e, are they solely receiving ALL income from built up equity and from no other source.

This is not supposed to be a negative or conflicting reply, it's just that most people I know of that are LOE, also have income coming in from business/es or other sources AS WELL as from built up equity.

Regards
Marty
 
hi charttv
have alook as ani has said and have a read
in answer to your question .
yes to the first
and yes to the second.
but it not as simple as you have asked.
also Aceyducey I am in the same boat with regards to kids
as they are the reason for my set time line and once that time comes around
and schooling is finished that will be the day that the person in my chair changes
and I see alot of this little rock we call earth.
 
Is there a difference between LOE and living off investments? An awful lot of people live on their franked dividends and millions recieve dividends in retirement.
 
Is anyone able to help regarding "working out this example" regarding Living Off Equity ?

Say someone has a $3M PPoR (unencumbered and in personal names)that also produces a annual crop and makes an income (to be specific).

They then look at setting up a LOC and take out $500k with a goal to repay the interest on a Monthly basis over five (5) years and then revalue the PPoR at the end of five (5) years...and maybe even look to repaet the exercise

They could take out and pre-pay the interest for those five (5) years as a Lump Sum up front, but it would be more adventagious to pay the interest costs Monthly (less total interest cost) and take out a Monthly sum.

Is anybody able to help in working out the costs associated with the sceanrios and the best way to implement this....as this would be Living Off Equity would it not (apart from a Month or two of harvesting the fruit crop..


This is a real situation with real people.....the concept however, is just an idea for them at this stage with no idea of implementation
 
Yes
I have lived off the increasing equity of my properties for years and continue to do so and my properties are heavily negatively geared. Sure I am fortunate -I have a substantial portfolio so I can getaway with it and my banks let me.

Sure I receive income from other sources, but for years I have needed to draw on my equity to supplement this for my lifestyle.

And I know a number of clients and a few friends who have done so for quite a while.

It's been discussed so often - I find it interesting that some just can't believe it is possible.

It requires a very substantial property portfolio and a change of mindset to accept that passive income form equity growth is just as powerful as active income from wages or rental (in fact more powerful)
 
hi Redwing, it's sort of similar to blowing a fortune on credit cards then reconsolidating thru your home loan, you have just cut the middle man out!

this could be a good new product... an automatically increasing LOC against your house that rises with the % change in median prices. then you could have a debit card attached to it branded as visa so you can collect frequ flyers along with a cheque book and internet access for your expenses.

there is no reason this couldnt work other than fact that your equity in the house is being eroded by inflation and you are limited to growth in house prices. E.g. sydneysiders would have had a lean christmas on the above product.
 
Is there a difference between LOE and living off investments? An awful lot of people live on their franked dividends and millions recieve dividends in retirement.

Gday folks.
RichardC: This is not really the same thing, as it is living off income from investments, not actual debt securing those investments. If you get a dividend and spend it all, the next day you still have your assets, still have the same debt over those assets. If you live off equity, you are borrowing money against your equity to live off, so after you withdraw the money, you actually have a larger debt than before.

As for the Living Off Equity deal: I have been looking into this for a little while, not because I want to do it particularly, but I just find all these strategies interesting. It turns out most of the gurus promoting Living Off Equity are not actually doing what they are preaching. They obviously have a pretty decent income from doing seminars, selling books, etc, plus most of the big boys and girls are into property development, which pretty much makes LOE a dead issue for them.
Im not saying this is deceptive of them at all, in effect they are preaching a doctrine easily understandable and available to the masses. I would say that by the time one is legitimately at the equity level required to sustainably living off equity, you would be a fairly driven and goal oriented person, so although you may do LOE for a little while, you would soon get bored and start doing something that you are passionate about, and probably make even more money doing so.
Without a doubt, even on conservative growth estimates with a large enough equity base, LOE is sustainable and workable - numbers just dont lie. so barring any major catastrophic crash in property prices (which would ruin not just LOE people, but basically all people invested solely in property; maybe LOE people moreso but lets face it, is there much of a difference between being 2mill in the hole and 10mill, you are buggered either way!) it seems to me to be more an idea of financial freedom - you could LOE if you wanted to, maybe you take a few months or a year off LOE for a while, but sooner or later you would develop a passion to do something, which would probably render LOE of minimal value anyway - maybe you use some equity to get by the first few months of starting a business, or use some equity to live while you start property development, or whatever.
Hope this makes some sense at least!
 
there is no reason this couldnt work other than fact that your equity in the house is being eroded by inflation and you are limited to growth in house prices. E.g. sydneysiders would have had a lean christmas on the above product.

well i guess you would have to base a strategy on certain assumptions (as you do any strategy) - the house would be growing at an average of 6%+ per annum (average, over the long term. you will find sydneys average over the long term would be perfectly ok). if you were fairly conservative, not living off more than say 1/2 the equity increase each year, you wouldnt be eroding your equity, in fact it would still be growing.
People automatically seem to make an assumption that anyone intending to Live off Equity would do so by tearing out all their equity in one lump sum and having a massive party. If you have 3mill equity, growing at 5% per year on average, you could still easily live off $75k per year. Not only would you still have your original 3mill, but that is growing by a further $75k compounding per year.
 
Yeah nice one Ausprop. Which is why I HAVE to get up at the crack of dawn and slave to my master in return for pityful hand-outs. Hang on a minute, thats my colleagues... :)

Good summary Coopranos. I for one would be extremely bored. How many baby boomers will have $1M in their super to retire on? Not many but from the last millionaire equity thread, looks like a good majority of forumites are already there and no where near 60 years old yet either. The problem with LOE is you will have long periods of stagnation and flat growth a la Syd last 3 years. Maybe WA will have its there in the future? Property is illiquid so trying to move funds in and out of geographical regions may be difficult after factoring transaction costs. However this world is ALWAYS providing >15% returns year on year but over different asset classes. You just need to know how to tap into it and befriend the trend so to speak.
 
Michael

Can you give us an idea of what you would think the 'substantial portfolio' would need to be be before LOE becomes possible ie Gross value with what sort of LVR? I assume there needs to be enough buffer to ride out the flat periods of CG, increased expendicture,etc?

Gazza
 
Gday folks.
edited I would say that by the time one is legitimately at the equity level required to sustainably living off equity, you would be a fairly driven and goal oriented person, so although you may do LOE for a little while, you would soon get bored and start doing something that you are passionate about, and probably make even more money doing so. edited

Good contribution Coop. kudos

No investor/entrepreneur would just stop their journey; unless illness or old age intervened.

I also agree with your idea of making a conservative judgement on future CG - say 5% would be my suggestion; and then only take 50% of that as LOE.

If you came unstuck with that, there would be a helluva lot of people in lot more strife.:)
 
Gday folks.


As for the Living Off Equity deal: I have been looking into this for a little while, not because I want to do it particularly, but I just find all these strategies interesting. It turns out most of the gurus promoting Living Off Equity are not actually doing what they are preaching. They obviously have a pretty decent income from doing seminars, selling books, etc, plus most of the big boys and girls are into property development, which pretty much makes LOE a dead issue for them.
Im not saying this is deceptive of them at all, in effect they are preaching a doctrine easily understandable and available to the masses. I would say that by the time one is legitimately at the equity level required to sustainably living off equity, you would be a fairly driven and goal oriented person, so although you may do LOE for a little while, you would soon get bored and start doing something that you are passionate about, and probably make even more money doing so.
Without a doubt, even on conservative growth estimates with a large enough equity base, LOE is sustainable and workable - numbers just dont lie. so barring any major catastrophic crash in property prices (which would ruin not just LOE people, but basically all people invested solely in property; maybe LOE people moreso but lets face it, is there much of a difference between being 2mill in the hole and 10mill, you are buggered either way!) it seems to me to be more an idea of financial freedom - you could LOE if you wanted to, maybe you take a few months or a year off LOE for a while, but sooner or later you would develop a passion to do something, which would probably render LOE of minimal value anyway - maybe you use some equity to get by the first few months of starting a business, or use some equity to live while you start property development, or whatever.
Hope this makes some sense at least!

Nice summary

See Change
 
Yes

It's been discussed so often - I find it interesting that some just can't believe it is possible.

Michael. I don't recall many ( or any ...?) people who say that it isn't possible. Some people have raised concerns about the way it has been promoted ( including structures) in the past. Different thing.

See Change
 
Michael

Can you give us an idea of what you would think the 'substantial portfolio' would need to be be before LOE becomes possible ie Gross value with what sort of LVR? I assume there needs to be enough buffer to ride out the flat periods of CG, increased expendicture,etc?

Gazza

if you were to adopt GIDDO's approach, if you wanted to pull out $70k pa you would need a gross portfolio value of $2.8m. it would need to be neutrally geared. so... off the top of my head you would probably need to be at about 40 - 50% equity max. so could probably comfortably run this with 6 or 7 IP's with a borrowing of about $1.1m (interest and expenses on this lot would be around $100 to $120k?) meaning a weekly rent required of around $280 to $300.

of course, tax issues aside, you could just whack your $1.7m into a managed fund and forget all the headaches.
 
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