just wondering.
loan application : what if u forgot having couple of loans or another credit card
- Thread starter oasis1frog
- Start date
I would say that you're not doing yourself any favours if you happened to forget a few other debts that you have.
remember the bank is only lending you money that YOU must repay to them and find a way to repay over time.
If they found out as well I'm sure they would have reason to call the money in immedietely as you have signed a document that says you believe everything you have written to be true and correct.
remember the bank is only lending you money that YOU must repay to them and find a way to repay over time.
If they found out as well I'm sure they would have reason to call the money in immedietely as you have signed a document that says you believe everything you have written to be true and correct.
Given that I always pay the total bill off my credit card, and say Visa wants to give me say a $12,000 limit even if I only want say a $2000 limit, and I need a Gold card to get free travel Insurance etc why should my application have to include an additional $12,000 debt when it simply isn't! I am a particularly law abiding person, but to me, that isn't fraud.
As only the initial credit card application possibly shows up in a credit check, and any cancellations of the card don't show in a credit check, how exactly, can you be caught out? Only 1 credit card showed in my credit check anyway.
I think it is all a furphy to be honest; anyone's personal situation can change the day after a loan is granted - unemployment, birth of a child, a new credit card - so as long as you pay off the loan, as required, I really dont see the problem.
As only the initial credit card application possibly shows up in a credit check, and any cancellations of the card don't show in a credit check, how exactly, can you be caught out? Only 1 credit card showed in my credit check anyway.
I think it is all a furphy to be honest; anyone's personal situation can change the day after a loan is granted - unemployment, birth of a child, a new credit card - so as long as you pay off the loan, as required, I really dont see the problem.
The limit is used because without applying for more credit, that can be your total debt after funding. However, there are many lenders who are understanding of people who pay the total limit off each month. Provide 3 months statements showing that you pay it off each month, and they'll likely exclude that from your servicing calculation. Ask your broker if the recommended lenders do this - they can recommend it to the lender's credit team anyway.
Alternatively most card operators let you re-open the card at a later date if you close any off. To skip some debts in your loan declaration is fraud, yes although it is hard to pursue & prove due to the privacy act.
Exactly, and that's why the bank treats your card as a $12,000 at call at any time, not just $2000 that might be outstanding. I would do the same thing if i was lending money as well.
Cheers Dan, I didnt know that, thanks for the tip.
OK, do people have to tell the loan company when they have a baby then? Or if the female was working, but pregnant when the loan application was made? And that the major income provider was going to care for the baby? Or that they would be paying expensive child care costs to go back to work? Or that they decided to divorce? Or that the next day they booked a luxury trip overseas by selling their shares or other assets to pay for it? Or decided to stop work?
I didn't go through a Bank for a loan but another lender who had reduced rates. He said not to worry about the other credit cards, just the principal one, and only included the average amount each month that I had to pay off. And again, our bank keeps increasing the $$$ limit on our card - probably because we do keep paying it every month so I do not accept that the Bank's actions should come back to haunt me, especially as they refuse to downgrade my limit!
Just a quick mention of credit cards problems, not a hijack!
I recently had a fight with Virgin CC as i wanted to put down my Credit limit on my Virgin CC from $2000 down to $1000.
I told them I never use it and it's only an emergency thing and I want it to be $1000, got told NO $2000 is the minimum...
Who are they to tell me how LOW I should make my limit.
Anyway, after about a week or so of being told this, someone higher up rang and I explained that I didn't need $2000 and he agreed and put it down to $1000.
What a lot of hassle to have your CC lowered!!!
I recently had a fight with Virgin CC as i wanted to put down my Credit limit on my Virgin CC from $2000 down to $1000.
I told them I never use it and it's only an emergency thing and I want it to be $1000, got told NO $2000 is the minimum...
Who are they to tell me how LOW I should make my limit.
Anyway, after about a week or so of being told this, someone higher up rang and I explained that I didn't need $2000 and he agreed and put it down to $1000.
What a lot of hassle to have your CC lowered!!!
You shouldn't overestimate the banks detective skills on this. They aren't as thorough as they make out or what we assume them to be. This from personal experience.
hi buzz
you are correct in some instances but the craa is the place to look and you will find very few that will not ask for a copy of your craa.
and if you get a copy of yours and you can get them free if you want to wit a few days.
it list every loan every card and every company that you are a director of where that company has asked for credit.
one thing you must not do is put an a@l in that is not correct as they can and do come back to bit you on the ar-e
as all lender don't like that.
besides being fraud which is bad enough and they may or may not chase you for fraud it means that you just wrote your self off any lending in the future.
oasis1frog.
forgetting a credit card or a loan is hard to do
to put it in a A@L( and I have seen a few that have tried that little perla) is not as you are saying this is my current A@L and if you leave it out of this doc you are putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger.
as that info is kept within the lender and if the paperwork comes thru say in 3 years and is different your gone.
yes it can change and you need to expalin how it changed.
if its all above board no problem.
if its not then the above is what you have done to your chances of getting another loan and there is no excuse for it.
you are correct in some instances but the craa is the place to look and you will find very few that will not ask for a copy of your craa.
and if you get a copy of yours and you can get them free if you want to wit a few days.
it list every loan every card and every company that you are a director of where that company has asked for credit.
one thing you must not do is put an a@l in that is not correct as they can and do come back to bit you on the ar-e
as all lender don't like that.
besides being fraud which is bad enough and they may or may not chase you for fraud it means that you just wrote your self off any lending in the future.
oasis1frog.
forgetting a credit card or a loan is hard to do
to put it in a A@L( and I have seen a few that have tried that little perla) is not as you are saying this is my current A@L and if you leave it out of this doc you are putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger.
as that info is kept within the lender and if the paperwork comes thru say in 3 years and is different your gone.
yes it can change and you need to expalin how it changed.
if its all above board no problem.
if its not then the above is what you have done to your chances of getting another loan and there is no excuse for it.
Yes, but how does the bank know you always pay your card off?
If the bank asks you what is the limit of your card and you don't write 12k, then that is fraud.
The simply way around this is to just reduce your limit to the minimum and then apply for the loan. If you pay it off in full then this should be no issue. You can put it back up later if you like. I think that's ethical, you are in effect 'proving' you don't need the loan.
On a side note - If you pay it off in full each month a 12k limit seems pretty high (unless this is a business card or you earn in excess of $250k). Ask yourself if you regularly (or even semi-regularly spend $12k in a month?).
I had perhaps a 2 month 'battle' with one of the four banks to get a small limit credit card when I wanted to travel overseas and potentially use the card in some tricky countries!
With regard to the 12K limit - yes it is way too high, the normal 'spend' is only around $1500, which consists of things like Car and house insurance direct debits, burglar alarm monitoring fees and of course, the occasional spend. I have never spent close to half of this in 1 month. It started out at $8000 limit but the Bank kept automatically upping it!
As I mentioned before, a couple of months ago I did purchase my Credit Assessment from a Credit Place - my date of birth had been wrongly recorded and I wanted to check that it had been fixed. Even though there are a couple of credit cards, only 1 bank had checked my record (if a check is made they are all documented) That card has since been cancelled by me, and there was no record of that! The major number of enquiries came from damn mobile phone companies! And again, your record could suggest that you might own many different mobiles, because cancellations of services never appear on your credit record.
The loan company was fine with me showing them records that indicated my cc's had been paid in full each month - that does show on each statement as there would have been interest charged otherwise. So you can prove that you do pay them in full each month.
The banks are in the risk business. They look at risk and price it accordingly. They know that your financial situation is not going to be exactly the same for the term of the loan.
If you have the ability to reduce all your credit limits until the day after all the paperwork is signed, then you probably have the ability to come up with a loan repayment every month.
The bank's risk is built into the price you pay, but it works both ways. The sub prime crisis in the US shows how when the banks get greedy and take more risk in the search for more profit, it can turn round and bite them.
Alex hit the nail on the head when he said treat the banks as a business partner because that is what they are. I have found that being able to say I am a bank shareholder works wonders. It's not a large holding, but they don't know that.
.
I think of it as a game. A lot would probably not agree, but it works for me.
If you have the ability to reduce all your credit limits until the day after all the paperwork is signed, then you probably have the ability to come up with a loan repayment every month.
The bank's risk is built into the price you pay, but it works both ways. The sub prime crisis in the US shows how when the banks get greedy and take more risk in the search for more profit, it can turn round and bite them.
Alex hit the nail on the head when he said treat the banks as a business partner because that is what they are. I have found that being able to say I am a bank shareholder works wonders. It's not a large holding, but they don't know that.
.I think of it as a game. A lot would probably not agree, but it works for me.
Yes
Dependents need to be included, so yes to babies, but no to pregnancy.Assets such as shares are not really taken into account, they are only used to ensure your assets > liabilities.
Yes
The pregnancy thing is interesting: pregnancy = babies = dependents?
That would be discrimination I think, until you actually have a baby, the lender can't refuse a loan based upon pregnancy. They don't know if you will take care of the child, or if your mother will, or if it will be adopted by someone, or even a miscarriage could happen.
The same applies if the lender/broker sees a client recovering from chemo, or a client mentions that they go to AA. They can't refuse the loan for these reasons.
The same applies if the lender/broker sees a client recovering from chemo, or a client mentions that they go to AA. They can't refuse the loan for these reasons.
Unfortunately the banks can't really do anything but go by generic afforadability calculators it seems. As pointed out, it is to some extent a load of nonsense - pregnancies, other commitments, cfd trading and a million other things affect ability to pay and they can't measure/consider them all.
The US system of credit ratings has big advantages - relying on past performance being indicative of future performance, but seems as though it can be too easily rorted.
What to do if you are quite sure you could handle a certain loan (and for instance have never failed a payment in the past), but the generic afforadability calcs say no? I wouldn't want to commit fraud (I would list all cards) but there may be some areas that you could play with a bit, especially if self employed or you have other income producing activitites. Do most lenders require past incomes (from tax returns etc), or do many allow expected income for current FY?
and a million other things affect ability to pay and they can't measure/consider them all.The US system of credit ratings has big advantages - relying on past performance being indicative of future performance, but seems as though it can be too easily rorted.
What to do if you are quite sure you could handle a certain loan (and for instance have never failed a payment in the past), but the generic afforadability calcs say no? I wouldn't want to commit fraud (I would list all cards) but there may be some areas that you could play with a bit, especially if self employed or you have other income producing activitites. Do most lenders require past incomes (from tax returns etc), or do many allow expected income for current FY?
Regarding main question of the topic;
Banks run a check to ferret out any loans. You may not have credit card maxed but they also want to know status on HECCS or personal loans etc.
Regarding dependants (mushroom topic).
Women sometimes still viewed as temporarily in the workforce until having a family. Numerous mortgage brokers cited a 'one income scenario' and referred to my phantom future baby.
It is not certain that a baby means one income.
Hey, would a mortgage broker ever say to a man "What if, when you marry, you and your wife want a baby and need expensive medical services like IVF? How will you service the loan then?"
Sounds way out doesn't it?
Banks run a check to ferret out any loans. You may not have credit card maxed but they also want to know status on HECCS or personal loans etc.
Regarding dependants (mushroom topic).
Women sometimes still viewed as temporarily in the workforce until having a family. Numerous mortgage brokers cited a 'one income scenario' and referred to my phantom future baby.
It is not certain that a baby means one income.
Hey, would a mortgage broker ever say to a man "What if, when you marry, you and your wife want a baby and need expensive medical services like IVF? How will you service the loan then?"
Sounds way out doesn't it?
