Long term value: brick vs. hardiplank?

[quintets]

Hi all,

One of the nagging questions I've had since I moved from Canada and started to buy in Australia is whether houses built from lightweight building materials (eg. hardiplank, fibro, cladded) carry the same long term value as brick or brick veneer?

For IP's, it's easier. I don't really mind either way. It's not an emotional issue. It's pure dollars and depreciation.

However, for a PPOR to hold the family and next two kids , it's an question for me. My partner is Aussie and doesn't really mind. We're looking at a vinyl cladded woodframe house. It's about 40 years old and they're asking a bit more than land value for a 900 sqm. The location isn't great, it's on a relatively busy street. The pictures looked okay, but the agent was a bit down on the age of the house.

Do people look at brick differently than lightweight building materials when it comes to value or security or longevity? Do most people just seem the the same? In the next 50 years, will they hold value? I'm just trying to educate myself on this area.

Cheers,

Jireh

 

[Sunfish]

Hi all,

One of the nagging questions I've had since I moved from Canada and started to buy in Australia is whether houses built from lightweight building materials (eg. hardiplank, fibro, cladded) carry the same long term value as brick or brick veneer?

For IP's, it's easier. I don't really mind either way. It's not an emotional issue. It's pure dollars and depreciation.

However, for a PPOR to hold the family and next two kids , it's an question for me. My partner is Aussie and doesn't really mind. We're looking at a vinyl cladded woodframe house. It's about 40 years old and they're asking a bit more than land value for a 900 sqm. The location isn't great, it's on a relatively busy street. The pictures looked okay, but the agent was a bit down on the age of the house.

Do people look at brick differently than lightweight building materials when it comes to value or security or longevity? Do most people just seem the the same? In the next 50 years, will they hold value? I'm just trying to educate myself on this area.

Cheers,

Jireh

Interesting Q. The vast majority of new homes in the tropical north are made of rendered concrete blocks and I don't know why. I assume it is strictly a cost thing.

I built mine with Hardiplank and it has an attractive "Queensland" look to it, and while the sloping block meant I couldn't get a price of block on slab to compare with it, I suspect it is the dearer medium and you have to find a carpenter to build it and that's getting hard.

Even in Syd, I guess the "Colonial" look of hardiplank would be attractive. Lightweight is superior in the heat afterall.

Thommo

 

[quiggles]

A lot of Aussies are prejudiced in favour of brick and tile, but I've been living in hardiplank for the last 15 years in a 44 y.o. house (well, it is now).

The two major drawbacks in my view are that cladding needs a fair bit of upkeep compared to brick and you can't build upwards.

But if you're buying at a price reflecting land value, you could always rebuild entirely later.

 

[quintets]

The two major drawbacks in my view are that cladding needs a fair bit of upkeep ...

Cladding needs upkeep? I thought it was snap-click-forget.

Jireh

 

[quiggles]

Vinyl can peel or blister, fake brick doesn't stand up to hockey balls (trust me on this) etc. It's a comparative thing, really. Solid red brick can sit there baking in summer and freezing in winter a lot longer than cladding, in my experience, but we're talking decades in either case.

 

[Bill.L]

Hi all,

In our area there is a distinct preference for brick. This is even reflected in the rents being higher by $5-$10 pw, for essentially the same sized house in the same street.
Peoples perceptions are that you are "wealthier" if you live in a brick house.

Mind you that is for our area and maybe we are just a little different down here.

bye

 

[MichaelW]

Hi,

Just finished building my PPOR in weathertex. Its a really easy material to clad with and has a plastic strip along the base of each board so you just sit one atop the other. We didn't have much choice due to the sloping site and the poles with bearers/joists approach, but the finish is spectacular. The downside is you need to paint the whole thing which adds to your ongoing upkeep costs. Benefit of this though is that its easy to change the look of your house dramatically by choosing a new colour in the future as trends change. There's a lot of redbrick houses getting rendered nowadays to hide the unsightly brick.

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[superted]

The value and growth is in the land.

 

[natmarie73]

Hardiplank would be cheaper to demolish than brick if you ever wanted to rebuild or develop in the future. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but I think they use the concrete blocks in North QLD due to cyclone ratings. Not sure though but it does cost more to build up there apparently than it does in Brisbane for example. All the houses my partner owned in Townsville were rendered concrete block. Maybe better insulation than brick as well.

Nat

 

[Peter Parker]

Hi all,

In our area there is a distinct preference for brick. This is even reflected in the rents being higher by $5-$10 pw, for essentially the same sized house in the same street.
Peoples perceptions are that you are "wealthier" if you live in a brick house.

Also very true in many parts of regional WA, where the choice is mostly brick vs asbestos (and weatherboard for old houses). GEHA type houses are normally amongst the best in town (needed to attract the nurses, doctors and teachers) and are all brick to high suburban standard.

Margaret River is an exception as timber houses and rammed earth houses are popular and well accepted there. Indeed there is local opposition to it becoming like suburbia, and brick houses epitomise this.

For years and years the archetypal 'good' house in Perth has been double brick + tile, with corrugated iron roofs getting a look in lately. The famous WA lifestyle and a double-brick house near the beach are almost inseperable.

I'd also go along with the 'wealthier' tag, drawing from childhood experiences (where would we have lived without asbestos!) and more recent investing experience.

Kalgoorlie has a significant affluent renter base and if anything the preference towards brick and away from asbestos is growting. In early 2003 a 1980/90s 3br brick/iron unit with a small courtyard rented as much as a 3br asbestos house on a normal block.

In late 2003/early 2004 rents had increased, but the increase wasn't even; the more modern units increased while the asbestos houses stagnated if not fell. My guess is that people moving from Perth and other cities want suburban standard accommodation, which means a brick house or unit.

The rent difference is quite amazing; an old 3br asbestos house might fetch $150-180pw rent, whereas a 1980s 3br brick & tile house would be $250pw+. Bigger newer brick houses might rent for $300-350pw. The cheapest brick & tile houses are 1970s vintage in the housing commission suburb, which is brick.

The tenant preference for brick seems so entrenched that investors don't seem to have done much dual occupancy or splitting of old asbestos houses, even though they are still fairly cheap. Instead newer brick units and houses have sprung up to meet housing needs.

Geraldton has a lesser difference, but brick is still clearly more desirable. Geraldton doesn't have the very high rents of Kalgoorlie, and there is significant housing commission asbestos housing. Nevertheless (no longer) cheap fibro houses by the beach have done well for their owners. A 2br brick semi in a quality suburb rents for about the same as a 3br fibro house in the cheapest suburb.

The smaller country towns have had little post 1970s construction, are mostly fibro (or hardiplank if a transportable home), and have a much lower proportion of brick than the cities cited above. So I'd imagine brick would be a selling point in these areas too.

Regards,

Peter

 

[Simon]

Brick is durable and cheap to maintain however Hardiplank/weatherboard is easier to repair or demolish.

Non-brick can be painted up nice for resale whereas bagging is a more expensive process.

I think it is a factor but not the overall war winner when making the choice.

Cheers,

 

[quintets]

Thanks to everyone for your comments and insights. In Canada, anything but brick is unheard of so I had a strong reaction when I first saw the houses here. However, given the range of climates here, there are many more considerations.

I still prefer brick, but now I know enough to discern my concept of "good value for a house" from the local markets. I've always leaned towards "the homestead" idea of the family home and it's difficult to see it happening in cladding/hardiplank.

Then again, "home is where the heart is".

Jireh

 

[simonjulie]

I'm with you Superted. In the long term it always comes back to the land value growth.
Simon

 

[thefirstbruce]

I have been told by two architects it is cheaper to stick with brick and standard sized windows. Any deviation, even to hardiplank, pushes your $/sq.m up significantly. I looked at doing a half brick half hardiplank IP 18 months ago and went off it.

You also want to consider that hardiplank can get knocked around more by tenants.

Further, hardiplank is inferior in insulating against sound and heat/cold. If you think sound insulation isn't important, you haven't lived in older Brisbane suburbs where you have a dozen Qld'ers lined up each 3 metres apart. You here everything through chamferboard and hardiplank. And with the growing trend towards psychologically labile morons with boom boxes living on ever smaller lots, smart insulation takes on a new imperative.

In SE Qld, I cannot believe that houses continue to get built without eves, running length ways on a north south axis (to cop all the morning and afternoon sun), are brick veneer, and don't have insulation. It is just crazy not to consider aspect in the subtropics. And with the smaller lot size, it gets harder to shade the west and east aspects of a house.

 

[Ausprop]

in existing construction just buy brick if it is the same price - the public love it. Unfortunatley brick is not really suited to much of the australian climate, is resource hungry and labour intensive to lay, not to mention slow.

here is an interesting article

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/0/8abed5ff9a08d6f8ca256cae0015f649?OpenDocument

and this from another govt website:

Thermal Mass

Construction materials, such as concrete, brick, aerated auto claved concrete (AAC or Hebel) and other solid masonry materials are considered as having high thermal mass. These materials absorb heat during the hottest part of the day and during the night release the stored heat as they cool. Obviously, the benefits of thermal mass for summer comfort depends on climates which are characterised by very hot days and cool nights, such as southern inland climates around places like Charleville in Western Queensland.

However, in the tropics and sub-tropics, where the climates are typically characterised with summer nights that are warm and sultry and summer days that are hot and humid, thermal mass is of little benefit and in fact can be detrimental if not correctly used. In this instance it is beneficial to place the thermal mass inside the house to absorb the heat gathered during the day.

there's plenty of research around on this

 

[DD1]

Land is so much of the equation

With the smaller blocks and cheaper rather than smarter building practices being employed on new suburbs, it was good to get onsite out in Flinders View and Deebing Heights to see the new 800sqm blocks with good sized brick veneer homes being built on them, all with external wall insulation and all metal roofs with sarking and insulation as well. They are doing these houses right, but with a price tag of $395K+ each Im glad they are going this far.

The delays in building are still over 6 months minimum and it is creeping out as trades people get harder to find. With this sort of pricing at the other end of the Centenary freeway extension happening now, the weatherboard and hardiplank little rippers up in Ipswich are looking mighty attractive for long term growth at the sub $200k mark right now. We have several there and will be hanging onto them for grim life, as we can see the potential glaring at us with the new house pricing.

One of ours has an asbestos roof, but as long as its not disturbed, its not a risk. Unlike WA where the fences were even in asbestos up until recently as well as roofs, it is hard for investors to see if the fences are asbestos as they have recently replaced this with a new fencing product called Super 6. Only problem is, super 6 looks and feels like the old asbestos fencing, arghhhh!!! So ask for this to be checked out properly in your building inspections over there just to be on the safe side.

Happy investing

DD1

 

[shazza]

Here in Queensland Super 6 IS asbestos. We had on the roof of our first house. Another problem with it that's not immediately obvious is that you cant spray in insulation (like coolncozy) because the tradesman dont want to pull up a section - too brittle and likely to replace.

Another thing maybe that people might have against wooden house is the perceived resistance to termite attack that brick house have. My husband said this to me - before I corrected him.

cheers Sharyn