MBA's and the GMAT

[Oscar]

I've been doing a bit of research around preparing for the stringent admission process of some international business schools and find that most require an advanced score in the GMAT. I've since found an entire industry around preparing potential student's for the all important GMAT test.

Can anyone that has done a GMAT recently share light on the best way to prepare for it. Any particular web sites you found more useful than others? Where to find past papers to download???

Any experiece would be worthwhile.....

 

[asdf]

Mba

Hi Oscar, Where were you looking to do an MBA? I was researching this extensively a few years back but decided that $200K for an ivy league school was too much a debt to take on. Regarding the GMAT, I bought the books and CDs. I think thats pretty much all you need. These tests aren't extremely difficult compared to uni or HSC but then again, I always struggle with those types of tests if I haven't done my homework. Just do truck loads of sample questions. You'll eventually start rope learning them. In saying that though, I never went sat for it. One of the guys I work with sat for it a long time ago and I think he got around 630+ and his g/friend at the time got 650. But they decided an MBA wasn't what they wanted to do at that time. I reckon if you get 620+, you'll be fine to get in anywhere. The score is not as important as your preparations - recommendations and letters. I looked at those and they were a nightmare process in themselves. I reckon it would help if you had recommendations from a PHD level Professor and maybe one from CEO of your company or similar position. The Yanks love to see that kind of stuff - balance between academics and business life. Makes their college look good. And throw in something from your football manager too (go down to your local club if you don't play any team sport). What would they know about 5th Grade Suburban Rugby....? I'm still contemplating doing one but I really think an MBA merely gets you more into the grind of 9-5 or in their case 8-10. Thats 8am to 10pm and you're still a wage earner. I work for a big organisation and sometimes see senior manager's stress levels increase ten fold for apparently no reason at all and these are guys who have small kids. If you already have an undergrad in commerce or the like, you won't learn anything new but the contacts you will make is phenomenal at an ivy league school though. Your really paying for that alumni network. Every one you speak to who has done an MBA thoroughly recommends it. Its just the opportunity cost for taking 2 years out to do one.... Good luck with it all.

 

[MarkB]

If you are seriously considering a US MBA, check out the vault and in particular the MBA board .

Another interesting link - Top 20 Message Boards by companies, industries, specific business schools, law schools, careers, and more.

A good friend (sadly now deceased ) who had an MSc from LSE referred me to that site some years ago.


Another useful site (british focus) is the Association of MBA's.


Mark

 

[quoll]

Opportunity cost!

Personaly not interested in the MBA, I've seen friends and co-workers put in the effort to do them. I don't think the results are worth it.

Spend the 2 years doing something more useful.

That said, in your particular case it might be what you need but I just can't see it.

I can't see the benefit.

cheers
quoll

 

[barney]

Better ways to spend your time.

I have to agree with quoll. Also know a few people who have done or started MBA's. So many people have an MBA these days they no longer have the value they had 10 or so yrs ago.
Also IMHO the time you but into an MBA (which is really only to climb the corporate ladder) would be better spent building up personal investments & on personal development of your choice.

 

[The Y-man]

MBA's are fantastic - for Universities...... they are a great source of revenue, for relatively little extra cost (hey, the classrooms aren't being used at night, make use of them!!)

My wife interviewed some job applicants recently for an accounting position. She noticed that all the ones with an MBA started their response with "Well that depends...." and never gave a straight answer.

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[MichaelW]

OK,

Got to argue the counter... I'm 3/4 through my MBA at the AGSM and I've got to say that it is the single most rewarding investment of my time and effort that I have undertaken in my entire 15 year career to date. The knowledge that I have gained from my study has allowed me to become a senior executive, which is something I could never have done without this knowledge. I had a technical, IT undergraduate degree and very little grounding in basic business principles such as marketing, economics, financial management, personnel management etc etc. The MBA gave me both the knowledge and confidence to pursue a general management career.

I know that a lot of people's career paths don't warrant this sort of education, but for anyone looking for an executive career in general management, a good MBA from a good business school is a bare minimum ticket of entry.

IMHO,
Michael.

PS Have you ever noticed that the people that typically argue that MBAs are worthless are the ones that don't have them? I don't know too many people who have successfully completed the intensive study and hard work required to attain one who would argue retrospectively that it was a waste of time and effort....

 

[MarkB]

...for anyone looking for an executive career in general management, a good MBA from a good business school is a bare minimum ticket of entry.

This really cuts to the chase in my book.

Mark

ps. No I don't have an MBA.

 

[The Y-man]

PS Have you ever noticed that the people that typically argue that MBAs are worthless are the ones that don't have them? ...

True.


I also noticed that many who lecture for MBA's don't have them either.....

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[quoll]

basic business principles such as marketing, economics, financial management, personnel management etc etc. The MBA gave me both the knowledge and confidence to pursue a general management career.

<cut>

PS Have you ever noticed that the people that typically argue that MBAs are worthless are the ones that don't have them? I don't know too many people who have successfully completed the intensive study and hard work required to attain one who would argue retrospectively that it was a waste of time and effort....

Point taken, I'm looking through rose colored glasses.

I've got a Business Degree so I've done the financial accounting, marketing and other general business subjects that do give you a good foundation of knowledge.

Where else could you get the business skills?

I still think the MBA is a lot of work for little gain. Maybe because I've got the skills they teach already???

Cheers
quoll

 

[quoll]

I know that a lot of people's career paths don't warrant this sort of education, but for anyone looking for an executive career in general management, a good MBA from a good business school is a bare minimum ticket of entry.

Another good point.

I'm getting out of the corporate job race and going to look after my own affairs so another reason I don't care for MBA's but as you say they are required for some positions and if you want that position you will need the MBA from a good school.

If you ignore the MBA and just look at the skills gained then the skills are good but the piece of paper is a waste of time.

In some situations the paper might be good for you.

cheers
quoll

 

[Bargain Hunter]

The biggest determinator as to the value of an MBA would have to be the motivation for completing the degree. I know several people who have completed degrees and then become employed in areas not related to their course of study. A degree is not a guarantee to greatness, although it is often used to cull applicants (whether or not the piece of paper is required to be successful in the role).

Only the person who completes the MBA can assess whether it has value. If a person completes a degree just to prove they can do it then there may not be any financial benefit (although there may be benefits that are not evident to the observer). If on the other hand the degree is required for advancement and promotion is guaranteed on completion, then the rewards (or value) is obvious to all.

When I started my MBA I was at the first level of management within my organisation and was able to incorporate what I was learning into the role. I moved up to the next level of management and by the time I completed my MBA I found the role was no longer challenging enough.

This week I start in a senior role within a small building company. In this case the MBA has been invaluable in moving forward in my career and generating a good income to put towards our investments.

 

[Oscar]

Thx for the comments and Pitt St, thx for the links.

It seems I may be in a similar position to Michael - After 15 years in workforce I am already a fairly senior executive, running a manufacturing business in China for a multi national. The job is great and extremely rewarding in both financial and personal terms. My motivation for doing a full time MBA (or part time Executive MBA) is that at some stage I would like to do a complete career turn around and perhaps lead a financial or marketing organisation for a multi national company (maybe same one). It's probably unlikely I could achieve this without an MBA from a top school. My second motivation is to give myself a real challenge. The school I am looking at is located in France and purported to be one of the best, certainly best in Europe. The admission process will take me about 12 months to put together. You need to prove proficiency in TWO languages, and do not graduate unless you become fluent in THREE!! I have a second language but need to do some work in order to pass the test requirements to the schools satisfaction. It is also a one year course so only have 12 months salary loss Along with the usual essays and references/interviews the GMAT score is also a key factor, hence this thread.

I was always of the school that the best way to learn and succeed in career is to throw yourself into challenging work and demonstrate you can do more than the average bear rather than pursue studies, that strategy has been very kind to me until now but to get to this 180 degree turn in career I feel this investment would be warranted.

Lastly, my investments over the years have afforded me the luxury of financing this on my own which gives me one less thing to worry about.

Thanks,

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Hi Oscar,

Just wanted to wish you all the best, regardless of the decision you make. May the choices you make in life bring you ever closer to your own goals and dreams.

Mark

 

[quoll]

G'day Oscar

If you want to progress the career and the MBA will help with that, then jump in!

I'd look at it as, here is goal, I need to do xyz to get there, then by all means go ahead and do the xyz, if that is tha path you have to take.

Good luck

cheers
quoll

 

[Oscar]

quoll, you're right, it is all about doing what needs to be done to achieve a certain goal. I just never thought I'd have to jump so many hoops just to be able to put together a competitive application!!

I just keep thinking of of JJamjars (JJJ) signature - bite off more than you can chew, then chew like mad......or something like that.

Amazing what you remember from this forum

 

[thefirstbruce]

My opinion is that if a MBA is worth doing, your employer will pay for it. This was common 15 years ago.

If they won't, then maybe that's the issue.

 

[MichaelW]

Oscar,

It seems we are in similar positions. I am also in Manufacturing, as an executive in a wood panels company. I can't help you with the GMAT test since the AGSM did not require me to do one. I just needed all the references and undergraduate postscripts etc.

I'm also fortunate in that (as thefirstbruce alluded to) my employer is wholly funding my MBA. That's a good thing as I'm about to commence my executive year which will cost them $20K AUD. I'd much rather that came out of their pocket than my own.

Anyway, I think it sounds like you're doing all the right things. I don't know anything about the school you've selected but if its rated the best in Europe then you're not going to be hurt by going there. One year does seem like a very tight timeframe though and I'm surprised the degree rates so highly given that condensed curriculum.

Here's a link to a ranking of business schools:

http://news.ft.com/businesslife/mba

You'll note if you select Executive MBAs that the AGSM where I am studying is the highest ranked school in Australia and Oceania at 31st on the International list. This was the primary driver for my selecting that institution.

Regards,
Michael.

 

[MarkB]

I've been doing a bit of research around preparing for the stringent admission process of some international business schools

Ever considered bringing an international business school here, via distance study?

Though some may shudder at the thought of that and say that it is "not how management education ought to be", the fact is that in the year 2005 lots of people study from the convenience of their own home, in their own time.

Back when the first MBA's were offered in the early 20th Century internationally, and in 1963 at the Melbourne Business School, this would have been unheard of, but education, like business itself, must evolve to remain current.


For example -

Manchester Business School - ranked 44th on MW's list

Warwick Business School - ranked 53rd

Durham Business School - ranked 91st


all have external programmes.

(FYI, the top two schools in Australia, the MBS and AGSM are ranked 63rd and 84th respectively)



Like any decision to invest in your own human capital (your intelligence) the "best" choice depends on what you're planning / hoping to do afterwards.

To that end, those links above may, or may not, be of interest.

Mark

 

[MichaelW]

Mark,

Do MBS offer an E-MBA? I did note that they've been progressively improving their standing versus the AGSM over the last few years for the full time MBA. No question that they're a great school. Just wondering why their E-MBA program didn't feature on the list I attached and figured its probably because they don't offer one?

The AGSM is sliding in its ranking which is not a good look. I'll be asking the school why they think this is happening and what they're doing to address these perceptions.

Cheers,
Michael.