Medical permits

[dunno_anything]

Hi there.

jsut wondering,

if we buy a block of land and plan to build a medical + dental centre and lease it to doctors and dentists.

who do we speak to at the council in order to make sure we can get a permit to build such centres?

I heard councils are very tight in terms of medical/dental permits.

 

[evan1875]

Hi

Carspaces are essential with this kind of thing and the rough rule is 5 carparks for 1 permit. So if you are applying for 3 permits you need enough land for 15 carparks minimum with vehicle manourvering areas. Permits determine how many health professionals (not just doctors, but physios etc all included) can do business at any one time. You will need a few staff carparks as well.

There will be some requirement for disabled access. If you go double story there will need to be a lift, 50K minimum.

Most medical buildings are actually converted from residential houses in residental zone 1 with ancillary use. Kristine on this forum will be able to offer advice on converting houses to medical centres. There is a thread somewhere on this forum please search for it. It is not cheap and you will be looking at 100K roughly to convert.

You will need to consider how you attract a tenant. Are they going to be a group of GPs (bigger property with carparks) or a solo specialist (smaller). Are there any precedent in the area? As most places a health precinct form near a hospital, or near a major activity centre.

Keep in mind most established specialist have their own property and the start up specialists will most likely only hire consulting rooms on a sessional basis paying 100-200 per session (half day) in a medical centre where a more established one is providing secretarial support.

If you are building from scratch in the hope of attracting a tenant, it is no different to any speculative commercial developing and there are more if not less risks being a medical centre.

 

[Terry_w]

Planning section

 

[chilliblue]

Do not spend any money until you have a secured a tenant. Do speak to council with regards to their requirements.

Some councils will allow medical with no change required dependant on the type of tenant. In many councils, medical usage is permitted in any zoning with certain provisions (i.e number of specialists etc).

You should also note that many medical tenants would prefer to own outright than lease.

 

[Aaron_C]

It would be a good business proposition I think if you are able to actually run the medical surgery and employ the doctors as a superclinic. Doctors don't like renting a spot they would rather own and their earning capacity means they are very capable of doing so.

 

[china]

It would be a good business proposition I think if you are able to actually run the medical surgery and employ the doctors as a superclinic. Doctors don't like renting a spot they would rather own and their earning capacity means they are very capable of doing so.

Is it wise for doctors to own their consultant premises attendant with all the hassles of ownership? Would you recommend that doctors only own their premises within the context of their smsf? By owning their own consulting room, the doctor is essentially dabbling in commercial property which they may have no idea about.

 

[chilliblue]

They prefer it because they can place the premises in their superfund and have a tax advantage.

The majority given the opportunity will almost purchase over leasing.

The best medical premises for a landlord are those that cannot be replicated or purchased.

For example, inside a university, in a hospital precinct etc.

 

[china]

They prefer it because they can place the premises in their superfund and have a tax advantage.

The majority given the opportunity will almost purchase over leasing.

The best medical premises for a landlord are those that cannot be replicated or purchased.

For example, inside a university, in a hospital precinct etc.

One of my medical clients wants to purchase some land with old house to build some consulting rooms. He is based in Gosford. I am undecided as to whether to advise him to purchase in the medical precinct around Gosford hospital where there is abundant and cheap land. There is almost certainly no capital growth in this area. Old residential houses (knockdowns) sell for about 350k and you would need to put in an extra 700k to convert it into a medical consulting rooms. This probably represents overcapitalisation for the area. The alternative is to buy property in Erina, which is the commercial hub of the Central coast - this is far (20 mins) from the medical precinct - but certainly there are big shopping centres, loads of people and commercially in demand lands. Here property is more expensive but probably, there will be no overcapitalisation. What do you think is the better option?

 

[Aaron_C]

A doctor who buys his own practice is not doing it for 'investment'. He is doing it for security of the premises and so he doesn't have to pay rent. The investment equation is a secondary consideration, for sure.

 

[china]

A doctor who buys his own practice is not doing it for 'investment'. He is doing it for security of the premises and so he doesn't have to pay rent. The investment equation is a secondary consideration, for sure.

How is the doctor different from any other small business owner? In certain areas, it is not worthwhile to own property whilst in others it is. If a doctor buys his own premises and one day, across the road, a serious competitor sets up, then that doctor is in trouble.

 

[chilliblue]

Doctors/specialists rarely move around.

Many that I have dealt with have been in the same location for over 30 years and have no intention of moving.

Real estate transactions are not usually something they want to be involved in and to be fair, their is little competition.

 

[china]

Doctors/specialists rarely move around.

Many that I have dealt with have been in the same location for over 30 years and have no intention of moving.

Real estate transactions are not usually something they want to be involved in and to be fair, their is little competition.

There is an oversupply of medical specialists in most of Sydney. Different in non-metropolitian areas. That is why many medical specialists in Sydney consult in different spots hoping to catch patients in different geographical areas. I can't see why it would make financial sense to buy a building in one spot when the specialist needs to move around regularly.

 

[marg4000]

A doctor who buys his own practice is not doing it for 'investment'. He is doing it for security of the premises and so he doesn't have to pay rent. The investment equation is a secondary consideration, for sure.

And often it is the doctor's wife (or partnership wives in the case of group practices) who buy the property and rent it to the doctors. Distributes income.

My first job was as a receptionist with an accountancy practice. I was actually employed by a company formed by the accountants' wives who contracted to supply the staff to the practice. Again, probably tax advantageous.
Marg

 

[chilliblue]

There is an oversupply of medical specialists in most of Sydney. Different in non-metropolitian areas. That is why many medical specialists in Sydney consult in different spots hoping to catch patients in different geographical areas. I can't see why it would make financial sense to buy a building in one spot when the specialist needs to move around regularly.

I predominately specialise in medical leasing these days and I can assure you that there is no over supply of medical specialists.

Certain areas in Sydney are so tight that you need to wait for a retirement or death to occur before finding a vacancy.

The reasons as to why some will consult in the regional areas:

- condition of their work permit
- condition of their work agreement with their states health department
- some regional areas allow greater tax concessions

You will find that these specialists will almost always have a fixed office location.

 

[china]

I predominately specialise in medical leasing these days and I can assure you that there is no over supply of medical specialists.

Certain areas in Sydney are so tight that you need to wait for a retirement or death to occur before finding a vacancy.

The reasons as to why some will consult in the regional areas:

- condition of their work permit
- condition of their work agreement with their states health department
- some regional areas allow greater tax concessions

You will find that these specialists will almost always have a fixed office location.

I disagree. Many medical specialists in Sydney, especially the ones new to private practice, find it hard to get enough patients to sustain them in full time work. Prices for procedures have been dropped: the specialists are trying to undercut each other in terms of price to get more work through the door. In recent years, there have been too many specialists graduating and there simply isn't enough work to go around.

 

[Aaron_C]

Too many medical specialists? Never heard of such a ludicrous proposition.

 

[Aaron_C]

How is the doctor different from any other small business owner? In certain areas, it is not worthwhile to own property whilst in others it is. If a doctor buys his own premises and one day, across the road, a serious competitor sets up, then that doctor is in trouble.

You don't seem to understand the mentality of medical doctors. They are generally very risk averse and don't want to negotiate lease terms every 5 years. They do not move practices often, if at all, if they can help it. So purchasing a property to operate their medical practice is a no-brainer for them - plus generally speaking it is quite inexpensive for them to do so as the properties are usually located on main roads in residential areas. Marg is also right that it is usually the doctor's wife/husband who owns/operates the medical clinic for asset protection.

 

[china]

Too many medical specialists? Never heard of such a ludicrous proposition.

Don't believe the media hype about shortage of doctors. If you know where to look, you can get into see a surgeon within the week and he will bulk bill you. Such is the fierce competition due to oversupply of specialists.

 

[china]

Too many medical specialists? Never heard of such a ludicrous proposition.

The government in recent times have responded to unfounded information regarding a shortage of doctors and are now pumping out too many. There are now 22 medical schools in Australia. There is not enough work for the graduates.

In many countries, doctors face unemployment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...1000-new-doctors-could-face-unemployment.html

Australia is in a similar situation - too many doctors, not enough work.

 

[Aaron_C]

The government in recent times have responded to unfounded information regarding a shortage of doctors and are now pumping out too many. There are now 22 medical schools in Australia. There is not enough work for the graduates.

Medical school does not equal specialist colleges. Very different...