Melbourne Market--Reality Check?

Cool. Once the media picks these up maybe 1st/2nd quarter 2009 will be a good time to buy. Or are people thinking now?

David,

I'm on the lookout now and seeing some vendors slowly lower their price expectations in some middle suburbs, but I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger just yet.

Good time to be watching prices and getting a feel for property values in your selected areas, with no real urgency.

Maybe Q1 or Q2 2009 seems about right...?
 
Not so sure....because things are moving around alot. I am watching the unemployment figures.....I believe this is the key to confidence and people entering the real estate market.

From where I stand things are going to get worse before they get better....the good news is that I feel that we might see an IR with a 6 in front by Jan. 2009.

Cheers
Sash

Cool. Once the media picks these up maybe 1st/2nd quarter 2009 will be a good time to buy. Or are people thinking now?
 
Early - mid next year, and assuming we get another interest rate cut or two.

By the way brop; why are you looking to try and sell right now?

Not a good time.

Information I had (including agents appraisal) indicated I could get a reasonable price--I have better use for the money right now. But auction results means I need a rethink.

cheers

brop
 
If you think about it..... last weekend was probably the worst time in our lifetime - maybe the worst time in the last 90 years to put a property to auction.

I've heard others say this may mean this is the best time in our life time to buy a property.

The world is in trouble and the market is terrible.

But we are not buying the market - within that market there are some amazing long term opportunities today.

Is the glass half empty or half full?
 
Michael,

The properties in the Eastern suburbs of Melbourne are truly tanking...whilst I am sympathetic and agreement about the longer term. I cannot see a floor for this product yet.....

Whilst well located prime property might work well in good times as capital growth is great....it might not be so great in harder times due to the cash flow bleed. Add to this...rising professional unemployment likely to affect this demographics as evidenced by news paper reports of late....and you have a potentially volatile market.

I have always been a cash flow player.....it now seems that whilst I have had moderately good growth on my places in Western Melbourne...my time in the sun has come via my properties in Melton and Wyndham....listings there are now hard to get. I suspect it is being driven by a combination of people not upgrading due to the economic situation and FHOG.

Would love to hear....how you expect the prime Eastern Melbourne suburbs to perform this year. You may have to pardon my cynicism....as I can't see the wisdom of getting into bluechip Eastern suburbs....as property prices are trully coming off as they did go up by 60% in the last 3-4 years as opposed to the Western suburbs which did about 30%.

Would love to hear your take on this?:p

Cheers
Sash

If you think about it..... last weekend was probably the worst time in our lifetime - maybe the worst time in the last 90 years to put a property to auction.

I've heard others say this may mean this is the best time in our life time to buy a property.

The world is in trouble and the market is terrible.

But we are not buying the market - within that market there are some amazing long term opportunities today.

Is the glass half empty or half full?
 
If you think about it..... last weekend was probably the worst time in our lifetime - maybe the worst time in the last 90 years to put a property to auction.

I've heard others say this may mean this is the best time in our life time to buy a property.

Great comment.

Michael, I've seen your graph with the two curves that shows the 'actual state' and 'herd perceived state'. It's the one that shows that that by the time the herd realise it's a good time to buy the 'real investors' have already moved the market ahead.

Do you think this concept holds true in the reverse? i.e. the 'actual state' might be that the property marker bottomed out last weekend however the 'herd' won't think it's bottomed for another 3-6 months.
 
Most auction marketing campaigns i have seen go for 4 weeks, 6 at the outside.

Most prospects in a particular area would see the place within that time.

The option is always there to cancel the auction.

Why up to 3 months?


The auction campaign was first discussed 10 -12 weeks ago.

Boy have the markets chnaged since then
 
Most auction marketing campaigns i have seen go for 4 weeks, 6 at the outside.

Most prospects in a particular area would see the place within that time.

The option is always there to cancel the auction.

Why up to 3 months?

The difference is the time it takes from the vendor actually deciding to go ahead with an auction with the REA, and the date of the first open inspection. A hell of a lot needs to get done in that time; maintenance, de-clutter and put stuff into storage, furniture hire?, spruce up (eg paint, gardening), photos, etc.
 
Great comment.

Michael, I've seen your graph with the two curves that shows the 'actual state' and 'herd perceived state'. It's the one that shows that that by the time the herd realise it's a good time to buy the 'real investors' have already moved the market ahead.

Do you think this concept holds true in the reverse? i.e. the 'actual state' might be that the property marker bottomed out last weekend however the 'herd' won't think it's bottomed for another 3-6 months.

Has the market bottomed?

I have no idea - but the answer is probably not.

Are we buying "the market" - NO!

In this market there are some very motivated and at times desperate vendors and this creates some top buying opportunities for long term investors.

For example I saw an example of one very keen vendor who sold his 3 apartments in the same block of units in a top inner bayside Melbourne suburb in the last few weeks. They were all renovated and tenanted and worth much the same, but they were put up for auction on the same day.

There were buyers in the crowd at the auction, but clearly not as many as there would have been earlier this year or last year.

The first property sold at $425,000 with a few keen bidders pushing up the price. The second very similar apartment was passed in at auction and sold just after for $405,000.

The last apartment was also passed in – there were no buyers left and no one bid for this property. It was sold a few weeks later to a canny investor for $385,000

What lessons can we take from this?

Well..last year these apartments would have easily sold for well over $450,000. That means all the new purchasers have probably done well in the medium to long term, but the purchaser of the third property has done very, very well.

Knowing that particular location well, as I have a number of properties in the vicinity, I believe that in today’s market all the properties if marketed correctly would have sold for around $425,000. There just weren’t 3 buyers there on the day and apparently the vendor was very motivated.

And as they were tenanted, if cut out all the first home buyers who are active in that market.

Buyers number 2 and 3 have done particulalry well. Even if the market falls another 10% buyer number 3 is still ahead.

That’s the type of property to buy today.

One that you would be happy to hold in your portfolio in the long term and one that was bought sufficiently below market price, so that even if the market fell a bit further, you would have bought well.
 
That's true but the actual 'campaign' doesn't start till the agreement is signed with the agent. Between that time and the actual auction is usually only 4 weeks.

Michael is referring to the campaign time.

The difference is the time it takes from the vendor actually deciding to go ahead with an auction with the REA, and the date of the first open inspection. A hell of a lot needs to get done in that time; maintenance, de-clutter and put stuff into storage, furniture hire?, spruce up (eg paint, gardening), photos, etc.
 
That's true but the actual 'campaign' doesn't start till the agreement is signed with the agent. Between that time and the actual auction is usually only 4 weeks.

Michael is referring to the campaign time.

Actually Michael was talking about when the auction campain was discussed. Anyone auctioning last Saturday would have discussed and agreed to go ahead with an auction on that date well before the SHTF with Lehman Bros collapsing.
 
ok, thats true, here's his line:

"The auction campaign was first discussed 10 -12 weeks ago."

But, that's a bit weird. Even if it was discussed 12 weeks ago, you wouldn't have a campaign that long.

You could say it was discussed 12 months ago but we only started the marketing campaign 4 weeks ago. At that time, the signs of trouble were clearly apparent.

Actually Michael was talking about when the auction campain was discussed. Anyone auctioning last Saturday would have discussed and agreed to go ahead with an auction on that date well before the SHTF with Lehman Bros collapsing.
 
last year these apartments would have easily sold for well over $450,000. That means all the new purchasers have probably done well in the medium to long term, but the purchaser of the third property has done very, very well.
Is this based merely on expectations of future capital gains, or are you suggesting that the prices paid were cheap relative to the fundamental value of the assets as investments? :confused:
 
MC, do you have to infect every thread with your same theme? There are enough threads already that are more on topic for the barrow you're pushing.
 
MC, do you have to infect every thread with your same theme? There are enough threads already that are more on topic for the barrow you're pushing.

Apologies if you're offended. I was asking a question of Mr Yardney. He claims "the new purchasers have probably done well in the medium to long term, but the purchaser of the third property has done very, very well". I quite reasonably wonder whether this is based on expectations of future capital gains or some measure of fundamental value. It's perfectly in step with the thread. :)
 
Buyers number 2 and 3 have done particulalry well. Even if the market falls another 10% buyer number 3 is still ahead.

That’s the type of property to buy today.

One that you would be happy to hold in your portfolio in the long term and one that was bought sufficiently below market price, so that even if the market fell a bit further, you would have bought well.

Hi Michael

There's some good advice there - thanks for contributing. Do you have any information on the yields generated by these properties at these prices? We can all then perhaps make our own judgements on whether these are good investments based on "fundamentals".

Otherwise we just end up arguing (again) about whether one person's good cashflow is another person's bubble! :)
 
Hmmm...that is is funny....isn't that the purpose of this site?

It is not a question about arguing about bubbles. Michael Yardney...no offence but I do feel that your strategies are centered around a boom property market...given the current market this strategy will need to change.

As for buying property valued at 385k when it was worth 450k....there is still
a large negative cash flow...in the order of $160-$200 pw. The question is whether the opportunity cost of putting your money vs somewhere else.;)

Cheers
Sash

Otherwise we just end up arguing (again) about whether one person's good cashflow is another person's bubble! :)
 
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