Microsoft Certification

[geoffw]

I realise that only a few of you will be qualified to give an opinion.

I am studying a Diploma of Software Development at Computer Power Institute through Holmesglen TAFE. It's a year of full time study. (Before the business, I had been in IT for many years, but had been out of it for eight years. I realised when I started doing some units that I still really enjoyed the IT work, unlike running the business).

The course is very practical, and is very heavily Microsoft. (I have done a few units at the local TAFE to add some balance- three units of Java andone of php). It covers a number of programming subjects (C#, VB.Net, Access, ASP.Net, WPF) as well as subjects like database design, SQL, testing, analysis and project management.

I've been doing well on it so far. I'm doing it remotely, and all the assessments have consisted of assignments.

Now I'm doing a unit which optionally carries a Microsoft certification (MCTS in Windows Development). I know that the certification would be a useful thing to have, but I'm not sure how much.

The certification is for C# (or could have been VB.Net), with a heavy emphasis of XAML & WPF. I'm finding that's pretty heavy stuff- my impression is that it's going very much away from easy to use in order to go towards the very powerful. It's heavy going- and it makes it worse that there's not a lot written, and the books that I have so far can be very difficult to understand.

The certification leans towards knowing a lot of things by rote. In the real world, I feel that I wouldn't have needed to do have memorised a lot of details in that way, especially in some of the areas which may not be used much in real life. That's what manuals are for.

I suspect that the certification could add a month or two to the completion time for my diploma. I'm inclined to either drop the certification altogether, or wait until I have the diploma before doing the cert.

Would any of you IT people have any input on this please?

 

[dilberto]

MS & cisco certification usually doesn't have a great amount of value without experience to back it up due to paper certs (https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/blogs/on_cert_security/2008/10/15/paper-certs) ie people just using testking etc to study for the exams, not study the knowledge.

I'm surprised to hear that MS are now playing in developer certs too, traditionally they were much more focused around support & infrastructure.

My thoughts would be that if you can easily do it in parallel - do it as another line item on your resume. It will help you get through front line recruiter interviews.

If you feel that a month or two more is too much, or you aren't worried about job hunting once you're qualified, ditch it. You can self study later if you've got the textbooks or resources then just book the exam (used to be around $150 to do the exams, I think they are more like $200-250 these days though.)

 

[cmason]

MS certs were big 7-10 years ago but I haven't heard anyone mention them for years. Managers use to try to push you to get them especially if you were in downtime.

In my time in IT the most important thing in my opinion is experience. Getting my first job out of Uni was the hardest from there they rarely look at anything to do with education it's mainly "how many years experience do you have?". So finish your course and try to get in there and build your experience

 

[S.T]

I did a Certificate in Networking back in 2000 with Holmesglen which mapped almost directly to the old MCSE (NT 4.0) qualification. I finished my certificate studies first at Holmesglen, then went and completed the 6 Microsoft exams. My advice would be to do the certification after the studies, just book the exam in close to the finishing date so everything is fresh. Not sure how highly regarded Windows Development cert's are as I don't work in that area, but seems you're going to be close enough - so would be worthwhile if not much more effort.

 

[D.T.]

Hi Geoff,

I'll answer as a I have a few Microsoft certifications (including a shiny new MCSA in Server 2012) to my name and am also in the job market. I have couple of other vendors ones too, like vmware.

Microsoft exams, in general, are fairly easy to pass. I don't want to admit that because it makes me not look as valuable, but they're mostly just a memory game. Ie what a the rules when migrating from X to Y, or what attributes should be set on property A.

Saying that, I'd never go and do a certification in something i wasnt already experienced in. The certification just provides some evidence that you know what you're talking about, but you still have to do what you're talking about.

There's a difference I feel, between getting qualified and learning stuff. They're not the same thing. Sometimes you need a bit of column A and B to progress...

@cmason -
I feel they were big 7-10 years ago, as you put it, because MCSE in Server 2003 was HARD. People that had these generally knew what they were doing. 3 things have happened since then:
1) The exams have become more available (read easier) so that MS can make more money from them
2) They renamed the MCSE to MCITP with the 2008 fleet of versions. It's back to the old naming again for the 2012 series (albeit having a different acronym), so hopefully it gets some recognition back.
3) People have learnt to memorise stuff to pass rather than just learning it. It makes me sad and devalues my quals.

 

[ok180]

I was an MCSE 10 years ago, I never actually did the exams though. A friend of mine worked in one of those exam places so I just paid him a couple of hundred dollars and he sat all the exams for me in under an hour. He was actually doing this for a lot of people and making some cash on the side!

I know I know, im going straight to hell for doing that.

 

[D.T.]

I was an MCSE 10 years ago, I never actually did the exams though. A friend of mine worked in one of those exam places so I just paid him a couple of hundred dollars and he sat all the exams for me in under an hour. He was actually doing this for a lot of people and making some cash on the side!

I know I know, im going straight to hell for doing that.

Straight to Jail too if someone finds out. Thats fraudulent activity.

 

[willfong]

I have a few of these MS Certs as my current employer encourages us to get certified.
I find in-house IT and gov departments don't care about these certifications. However, some Microsoft aligned software product companies and IT consulting companies do value these. Having enough employees with relevant certifications is one of the requirements for these companies to become MS (silver/gold etc) Partners.

I personally will sit the exam straight after your diploma if I were in your shoes. You need all the + points that you can get having been out of the industry for so long.

Btw, MS is having a second shot offer at the moment which allows you to retake the same exam for free if you fail the first time (need to register for voucher # before booking first exam).
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en-us/second-shot.aspx

 

[geoffw]

Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it.

The second shot is something our instructor mentioned. The first shot is included in the course fees. I see it's available until May 2014- that also helps me to decide that I don't have to rush into it now.

It does seem from the material that it is all about memory- and I'm not so good at that. I've been able to pick up competencies quite well, as long as I can refer to source material for when I get stuck. In most of the other things I haven't needed to refer back much, but this WPF & XAML is a whole new ballgame for me. Is it being used much out there in the real world?

 

[myoung]

It's a competitive world out there.

As someone who interviews and hires people in IT I would rank it as follows:

Experience + Cert > Experience + No Cert > Cert + No Experience > No Cert + No Experience.

The further to the left of the equation you sit the better. At least with no experience in a field you have demonstrated some level of ability by doing the cert.

 

[geoffw]

It's a competitive world out there.

As someone who interviews and hires people in IT I would rank it as follows:

Experience + Cert > Experience + No Cert > Cert + No Experience > No Cert + No Experience.

The further to the left of the equation you sit the better. At least with no experience in a field you have demonstrated some level of ability by doing the cert.

How does a Diploma- one year full time- sit with that? Does it have any credence in the hiring world?

I feel that the Diploma shows practical understanding, the Cert shows ability to rote memorise.

 

[myoung]

How does a Diploma- one year full time- sit with that? Does it have any credence in the hiring world?

I feel that the Diploma shows practical understanding, the Cert shows ability to rote memorise.

Depends how relevant it is to the job at hand, I'm on the infrastructure side, not applications development but experience counts the most along with how the person interviews(handles questions/situations etc). In terms of certificate vs cert would depend on which one holds the most relevance to the technical skills being sort. Both are more of a line breaker in terms of splitting candidates and are more important for your CV in getting you to the table for the interview itself. Hope that makes sense. In terms of doing the cert exam - wont hurt. I would do it.

 

[Strannik]

if you plan to be a software developer - certificates are waste of time and money.

if you plan to be an admin'ish kind of person - that's where they are valued