Misleading Dodgy RE Agent

[RedApple]

Hi all

I live in Melb and previously placed an offer on a property in Sydney which got rejected.

3 months later the agent sent me an email asking if I was still interested. I was and also offered them my best price. He then asked for my solicitor details and said he's confident the vendor will accept. This occured on a Wednesday and I heard nothing from him since. The following Monday night (4days later) I recieved a letter in the mail saying that the agent have forwarded the particular of sale to my solicitor (on that Wed ) and that I should contact my solicitor to facilitate the conveyancing of this matter.

The next morning (Tuesday) I frantically called up my solicitor about the news and was told that the contract he recieved had a 14 days settlement period plus a condition that transfer certificates must be available at least 14 days before settlement or there'll be a penalty fee

Inclusion boxes on the contract note were left blank which my solicitor said generally RE agents should have ticked but in this case didn't so I called the agent up and also queried the ridiculously short settlement. He then pushed me to go back to the solicitor with the reasoning that all contract matters are to be negociated between the buyer's & seller's solicitors. I also requested a copy of the contract which he said he'd email straight away on the day but didn't and sounded as though he wasn't so keen on the sale. My solicitor wrote up a letter to negociate the terms and sent it to the other solicitor straight way that day.

The next day (Wednesday) I organised for my Prop Manager inspect the prop but was told that the sales agent was on leave that day and that we need to wait until he returns.

Thursday morning, my PM contacted him at 9am and was told that some body else's offer had already been accepted. I was totally unaware. The sales agent didn't bother to advise me until lunch time via a text message with the excuse that the other buyer had offered a much higher price !!!!

I undertand gazumping does occur and if the agent was genuine about the sale and somebody else puts in a higher offer before I sign the contract then that's fair enough but in this case it seems as though it was all a set up to inflate the price from the other buyer. The contract could not have gone ahead with 14 days to complete plus requirement of transfer certs be available at least 14 days prior to settlement.

Also on Tuesday I last spoke with him at 5PM, he was off-work on Wednesday but by Thursday 9AM he advised my PM that I'd been gazumped. Wouldn't he had already known this on late Tuesday and should have told me then instead of waiting until Thursday ?

This cost my solicitor and my self alot of time and stress frantically running around getting the contract sorted out but it was all just a set up made by the agent as a game to get higher offers from other buyers ?

I think it was very unethical, misleading and deceptive of the agent.
Since I'm not from Sydney, can you advise is this the normal business conducts of RE agents ? If not what are the rights of mislead buyers in this case ? can we ask that they cover the cost of solicitor fees for the work done as a result of their deceptive conduct ?

 

[Bargain Hunter]

It appears to me that the vendor had a deadline and held out until the very last moment putting the REA under pressure to get a contract signed. Your solicitor obviously checked the details and was not satisfied with the arangement, another party signed and submitted the contract.

Given the time pressures the other party may not have even read the contract believing that it had the standard clauses and leaving it for their conveyencor to sort out later. Perhaps they thought it was a deal they couldn't go past.

From a legal standing the property is not sold until the contracts are exchanged and therefore the vendor can accept any other offer.

If it was me I'd probably be thankful that the deal didn't go through as it has dodgy all over it.

 

[twobobsworth]

I'm a little confused. You haven't mentioned where the agent advised that the vendor has accepted your offer.

Normally you sign the contract pay your non refundable 0.25% and go into cooling off for 5 days, they do the exchange and send it to your solicitor.

Maybe a good thing it didn't happen this way if the terms of the contract aren't achievable. Saved your deposit.

 

[evand]

You were played like a fiddle by the agent. I think he said to the vendor "if you accept this low price i can get you a 14 day settlement" all without asking you first.

And then used that to manipulate a better offer. Unbelievably disgusting!

Thats why he wanted your solicitors details up front, to bypass you as you wouldnt have agreed to that.

It is totally normal that agents are dodgy but thats a pretty despicable and cunning example.

It just goes to show they will do just about anything to get their commission and dont give a flying **** about vendor or purchaser.

I'd say youd have a legal case to be reimbursed for your solicitors fees. Getting it is another matter entirely tho.

Never give details of your solicitor etc to an agent before acceptance of your offer. Sheesh, you hadnt even seen the contract.

 

[Propertunity]

You were played like a fiddle by the agent.

Yep indeed!

Never give details of your solicitor etc to an agent before acceptance of your offer. Sheesh, you hadnt even seen the contract.

....and never be suckered into bying the line of letting solicitors negotiate the terms. YOU do the negotiating and let the soli's do their legal & conveyancing work.

 

[Ed Barton]

I'd say youd have a legal case to be reimbursed for your solicitors fees. Getting it is another matter entirely tho.

on what grounds?

 

[Propertunity]

.... but in this case it seems as though it was all a set up to inflate the price from the other buyer.

Yes. The agent is paid to get the highest price he can for the vendor ....unfortunately, you were just being used in this case.

Since I'm not from Sydney, can you advise is this the normal business conducts of RE agents ?

I'm pretty sure that some agents do this in Melbourne too. If you're an out-of-towner it's hard to survive in shark infested waters.

If not what are the rights of mislead buyers in this case ?

You'd have to prove your case. It isn't worth the effort - let it go and chalk it up to 'experience'.

can we ask that they cover the cost of solicitor fees for the work done as a result of their deceptive conduct ?

You can ask what you like. It isn't going to happen. Put your efforts into something productive moving forward.

In many respects, your actions showed that you were a novice at buying RE in another city where you were not familiar with the sales practices or the conveyancing processes. If you had more experience, or you'd hired a BA (sorry, I am not pushing that line from a personal perspective ), or a trusted experienced investor friend, then you would not have even fallen into this trap in the first instance.

 

[RedApple]

Hi everyone,

thanks all for your reply


Bargain Hunter: yes that agent is absolutely dodgy

twobobsworth: the agent advised me in writing that the vendor had
accepted my offer and asked me to proceed with the conveyancing asap.

evand: yes, totally disgusted with the way the agent operated.
I did thoroughly read through the contract that they previously sent me 3 months ago. It had 42 days settlement and reasonable terms. I would have exchanged that contract with the agent and gone into 5-days cooling off period to do the due diligence. However he cunningly modified it to 14-days settlement and added other special conditions that were previously not mentioned in the earlier version, without me knowing, then sent that copy to my solicitor. When I requested a copy, the agent said he'd email it straight away but never did then later on made excuses about not having the the latest contract version and even blamed it on the vendor's solicitors for the additional changes. Disgusting.


Propertunity: yes I was aware of that. My mistake was giving the agent my solicitor's details too soon. And knowing that I wanted to quickly proceed with the contract the agent disgustingly pushed me to the solicitor to do all the negociations to escape the dirty mess he created....

When I last spoke to the agent he advised that the vendor had already accepted another much higher offer but nothing had been done and no contract had been signed yet. He even hinted if I wanted to match them ? Unbelievable !!! Could have been another scheme to force me into lifting the offer after suspecting that I might have incured solicitor fee.

This was a good lesson for me and I'm glad to have gained a better idea of silly traps and sharks that could exist out there. I've thought of engaging a BA but wanted to go through the hard yards myself to thoroughly understand the process and learn how to find good deals on my own.

My solicitor has decided not to charge me any fee for this which makes me feel really bad to have caused him several hours wasted. He's been very helpful and thorough in going over the contract with me. My reason for this post is to check whether it was me not totally understanding the buying rules and/or if the agent has really being dodgy and deceptive as I've suspected.

I'm not going to loose any sleep over this or get put off from buying IPs however I'm really keen to report the agent to the department of consumer affairs/fair trading. Is this wothwhile ?

The ideal outcome would be if the agent could somehow compensate my solicitor for the time loss as a result of his 'game' ? Or should I contact the director of the agent to report about his misleading, irresponsible and deceptive conduct? I just don't think it's fair for him to treat others this way and get to get away with it freely

 

[Bigtone]

i have found the R/E rules in NSW to be the worst and most difficult in Aus to deal with as a buyer.

I much prefer the rules in Vic and qld especially. (QLD is probably too favorable to buyer )

 

[Rolf Latham]

i have found the R/E rules in NSW to be the worst and most difficult in Aus to deal with as a buyer.

I much prefer the rules in Vic and qld especially. (QLD is probably too favorable to buyer )

qld has its own issues with time is of the essence contracts at the sharp end.....................

ta
rolf

 

[buster]

Yes. The agent is paid to get the highest price he can for the vendor ....unfortunately, you were just being used in this case.

I'm pretty sure that some agents do this in Melbourne too. If you're an out-of-towner it's hard to survive in shark infested waters.

You'd have to prove your case. It isn't worth the effort - let it go and chalk it up to 'experience'.

You can ask what you like. It isn't going to happen. Put your efforts into something productive moving forward.

In many respects, your actions showed that you were a novice at buying RE in another city where you were not familiar with the sales practices or the conveyancing processes. If you had more experience, or you'd hired a BA (sorry, I am not pushing that line from a personal perspective ), or a trusted experienced investor friend, then you would not have even fallen into this trap in the first instance.

Thats BS Prop I hired a BA, and a simliar thing happened to me. It was was supposed to be a quick unconditional sale, they kept on delaying signing the contract for all sorts of reasons, while the property that wasnt on the market it was being shown to other buyers. I was told I should take action against the agent, but I already had a gutfull and couldnt be bothered and the vendor was a smart **** greedy solicitor who would only dragout and make any action too expensive. I guess what needs to happen is for people to take action against these immoral unethical*****, They know people couldnt be botherered and just want to move on so that is why they do it.

 

[buster]

Should add that was in melbourne. I think it is better to just too not buy in melbourne, too many sharks and a lack of ethics.

 

[buster]

Prop wether a novice or not a verbal agreement should be honored.

 

[Propertunity]

Prop wether a novice or not a verbal agreement should be honored.

buster I agree that verbal agreements, gentlemen's handshakes etc should be honoured......But the reality is as you've found, somewhat different AND in regards to real estate law, a verbal agreement, as saying goes, is not worth the paper it is written on.

 

[Collector]

Hi everyone,

evand: yes, totally disgusted with the way the agent operated.
I did thoroughly read through the contract that they previously sent me 3 months ago. It had 42 days settlement and reasonable terms. I would have exchanged that contract with the agent and gone into 5-days cooling off period to do the due diligence. However he cunningly modified it to 14-days settlement and added other special conditions that were previously not mentioned in the earlier version, without me knowing, then sent that copy to my solicitor. When I requested a copy, the agent said he'd email it straight away but never did then later on made excuses about not having the the latest contract version and even blamed it on the vendor's solicitors for the additional changes. Disgusting.
(

FALSE

The agent can not change or add clauses or terms to the contract; the agent can only fill in the boxed section on the front page of the contract (inclusions, exclusions, purchaser's & purchaser's solicitor's details and price)

All other changes can only be made by the vendors solicitor.

 

[Wise1InOz]

Just bought our first home a couple of days back.

We expressed our interest around the end of Oct. The agent tried all the usual tactics - another interested party, must be quick or else lose this wonderful opportunity, etc etc. We stood our ground very firmly and gave it back in equal measure - that if the seller had another offer then we too had several vendors/agents chasing us...lol. We told the agent in no uncertain terms that we were buying our first home and whilst we were certainly interested in buying the property we had no intention of rushing into it.

We gave a verbal offer of our price - nothing in writing. We knocked out every special condition that we didn't like even remotely, got a building and pest inspection done (he again reminded us of the 'other interested party' and we gave our ultimatum - fine, tell the vendor to sell it to them, we will not go ahead. He completely changed tracks after this and stopped bleating about the other buyer). We also gave the cheque for 10% deposit only after the agent returned the contract signed by the vendor...lol

From the time we first saw the property it took us 10 days to sign the contract. We also got a 90 day settlement period although we could have settled within a week - gives us time until our current lease runs out and renovate the property

Did I mention, our first home is gorgeous and I am in love with it.

 

[vaughan]

Just bought our first home a couple of days back.
<snip>
Did I mention, our first home is gorgeous and I am in love with it.

No you didn't.

Oh hang on, you did.

Congratulations!

 

[Wise1InOz]

No you didn't.

Oh hang on, you did.

Congratulations!

of course I did, I've pinched me self a dozen times to prove I didn't dream it up

ps: Thanks!