money choice all in one broker solution ?

Token Funder said:
The first thing required to protect their interests would be to make it illegal for anyone to enter into a binding contract with them without the approval of, say, a Public Trustee. Ideally, all their bank accounts would require a co- signatory from a suitably careful officer from an appropriate government department.

It might sound a bit extreme, but extraordinary levels of naivety require extraordinary protections.
Click to expand...

And how much would consumers be willing to pay for such a service?

Further into the nanny state...

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, it's a moot point anyway as brokers and bankers could still effectively do the same thing. Every single lender I deal with provides an application form. Every application form contains pages where the consumer signs to say the info in the application form is correct. These pages are completely separate to the pages where the actual information is contained. In fact it goes one step further in most cases these days. The data is sent to the lenders assessors electronically and they the privacy forms are sent via fax, post or email.

Even if someone vets all of the data being sent to the lenders assessment data, there's nothing at all to stop the broker or assessor from changing the information prior to it being sent, then attaching the signed pages to the amended information. Every time you sign a loan application you're as good as signing a blank form anyway.

The way some lenders get around this is to simply send a copy of the data receive in application form format and they require the borrower to sign it along with all the other loan offer documents. If you change this document in any way at this point, the loan offer becomes invalid and the assessment process begins again from scratch. Very frustraiting whey you've made a typo in the email address. In my experience people only gloss over this information when the time comes regardless.

Once again, people sign their lives away without reading what they're signing. No problem if the person you're dealing with is honest and acts in your interests. Too bad if they're not honest.
 
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JudgeJury said:
You should never assume that the consumer should know their rights.
Click to expand...

One should also never assume a "consumer" should know their obligations of disclosure and the like.

One should make sure that the consumer seek independent legal, financial, taxation and many other forms of advice whenever they look to get into any form of agreement, including financial arrangements, personal and business relationships.

ta
rolf
 
Token Funder said:
I would have thought a low tolerance for people who tell lies would be a predictable response for most people, not just bankers.

I'mobviously out of touch.

In any case, I think someone who signs a blank document is knowingly participating in a fraud or failing to care if a fraud is committed in their name.

This is a completely different issue to the question of borrowers being deliberately mislead by property marketers, REs other rogue operators.

Of course, it is quite possible for both behaviors to occur simultaneously.
Click to expand...

You seem to have originally missed my point here TF, but have hit on it, in your last two sentences, because this is exactly what it is all about. Granted if someone signs the forms knowing that the information to be submitted to the lender is false, then clearly they are as guilty as the broker. That is not what is being referred to by me!

What has been happening in my experience goes well beyond that. This is about property marketing / brokerage companies who build an element of trust into their relationship with their clients. When this is established they blatantly lie to and mislead the client about many aspects of the purchase until such time as a sales contract is signed. Then they seek to bully the client through the rest of the process under the threat of being sued by the developer if they don't settle. I have numerous examples of clients who have been referred to a lawyer by the marketing company for advice. But the lawyer is in on the scam as well. He /she ensures that the client is properly stitched up, and advises them to do exactly what they shouldn't be doing. All of the players in this saga, profit handsomely from the funds when the settlement goes through. What an incentive eh?

I hope this explains my position a little better!
 
Every loan application is essentially blank, PT summed it up well.

Not to make light but a bigger cause of problems is people can't / wont fill out forms correctly!!
 
On many occasions the clients sign a blank page after discussing the finance / loan with the broker/banker - on the implied understanding that what was agreed to will translate into the loan application itself. Obviously if that doesn't happen then you got a big problem.
 
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ErinB said:
Wow! Everyone's talking about it.... I am gob smacked. Check out these posts.


http://www.bfcsa.com.au/index.php/easyblog/entry/money-choice

http://www.bfcsa.com.au/index.php/easyblog/entry/money-choice-how-many-people-have-been-affected

http://www.bfcsa.com.au/index.php/e...e-possible-sale-of-the-money-choice-loan-book

http://www.bfcsa.com.au/index.php/easyblog/entry/matt-george-and-money-choice-financial-advice

http://www.scaminformer.com/scam-re...u-in-loads-of-debt-and-at-risk-of-c79512.html

http://www.scaminformer.com/scam-re...-off-it-is-a-property-and-finance-c79516.html

I never knew when I asked the question that there would be so many people who had also been scammed like I have!

Thank you everyone for your blogs!
Click to expand...

Some of the correspondents on BFCSA would appear to to have problems broader than the financial.
 
The Human Factor

Token Funder said:
If pain persists, see your doctor.
Click to expand...

Typical comment from a banker like you TF and the rest.

If brokers like Matt George and Money Choice stopped and considered the person behind the transaction instead of just the $ that they slid into their own pocket through misrepresentation and fraudulent practises then the world would be a far better place.

Sounds like bankers are no different from brokers like Matt George and Money Choice

TF yes a lot of people in my situation need to go to the Doctor to get them through the anxiety and depression that results from been put in the position that they have been put in. This is the human face created from the financial stress!

Don't mock people who are in extreme pain as the direct result of the actions of imprudent, predatory, irresponsible and unconscionable lending practises as Money Choice has so obviously been.

The stress from this causes marriages to split, families and friendships to fracture. It is the reason that people choose to take their own lives. To throw themselves off a side of a cliff.

Let us not forget the human factor behind these stories.

These are people. They are not stupid people. Indeed I am one of these people. I am a professional in a high profile position. I use the services of professionals like finance brokers to give me professional advice about borrowing money. If they say I could get finance and afford to hold a property then since they are qualified to give me this advice I trust them.

When you get a $100k pay rise from when you first purchased the property and you still can't get finance for the property you gotta say hey something just aint right here.

There is no question TF. Money Choice have carried out fraudulent and irresponsible lending practises for many years and as we are now finding out there are many clients who have been exposed and put in financial ruin by the activities of spruiker Matt George.

So when you have a good laugh with your fellow inmates in the financial industry can I get you to think about your elderly Mum and your Dad, maybe your wife as she sits nursing your child, or your kids as they head out to school and think I have been put in so much debt by Matt George at Money Choice that I can no longer afford to put food on the table tonight, pay for the kids to go on an excursion and sorry I can't afford to get you new school shoes this term? Now turn to your wife holding your baby and say gee honey we can't make ends meet so you have to put the baby into child care and go back to work full time.

'Cos you know TF they are the stories that I have been hearing.....and you know TF I am now afraid that one of these people that Matt George at Money Choice has financially ruined is going to choose that there only option is going to be to jump off a bridge!

So please don't insult us with your arrogance! There is a face behind the dollar sign that you put in your pocket. Not just the face of the Queen. There is a face of your Mum and Dad, your wife as she nurses your child, your children as they play in the back yard. Indeed, that face is of your fellow Australian who like you had the right to be treated fairly and with respect, who had the right to know that they lived in a country that had consumer laws to protect them from people ripping them off.

So if a great lady called Denise Brailey volunteers to offer these people assistance with her organisation "The Banking & Finance Consumer Support Association" www.bfcsa.com.au formed to help protect everyday Australians from Bankers and Brokers then let's applaud them. Let's praise these people for standing up for what they believe in.

Especially when this lady is so highly regarded that she gets to stand up to present in the Senate Economics References Committee Public Hearing Inquiry into the post-GFC banking sector.

Denise Brailey is looking out for people like your Mum and Dad, and your wife and child, and your kids in your back yard and helping them from not having their homes taken away from them because they have been victims of imprudent lending.

So when you raise your eyes to the heavens and imply that normal everyday people who have some very big financial problems ultimately because of you banker ******s think of the everyday Australian that you represent whilst you pull that dollar out of your back pocket to spend on getting food on the table to feed your family. Because of brokers like Matt George and companies like Money Choice that money choice that you have has been taken away from them and as a result of no fault of their own other than trusting the wrong broker.

Don't ever forget the face behind the dollar sign.

Disgusted, You are a disgrace TF

ErinB
 
ErinB said:
Typical comment from a banker like you TF and the rest.

If brokers like Matt George and Money Choice stopped and considered the person behind the transaction instead of just the $ that they slid into their own pocket through misrepresentation and fraudulent practises then the world would be a far better place.

Sounds like bankers are no different from brokers like Matt George and Money Choice

TF yes a lot of people in my situation need to go to the Doctor to get them through the anxiety and depression that results from been put in the position that they have been put in. This is the human face created from the financial stress!

Don't mock people who are in extreme pain as the direct result of the actions of imprudent, predatory, irresponsible and unconscionable lending practises as Money Choice has so obviously been.

The stress from this causes marriages to split, families and friendships to fracture. It is the reason that people choose to take their own lives. To throw themselves off a side of a cliff.

Let us not forget the human factor behind these stories.

These are people. They are not stupid people. Indeed I am one of these people. I am a professional in a high profile position. I use the services of professionals like finance brokers to give me professional advice about borrowing money. If they say I could get finance and afford to hold a property then since they are qualified to give me this advice I trust them.

When you get a $100k pay rise from when you first purchased the property and you still can't get finance for the property you gotta say hey something just aint right here.

There is no question TF. Money Choice have carried out fraudulent and irresponsible lending practises for many years and as we are now finding out there are many clients who have been exposed and put in financial ruin by the activities of spruiker Matt George.

So when you have a good laugh with your fellow inmates in the financial industry can I get you to think about your elderly Mum and your Dad, maybe your wife as she sits nursing your child, or your kids as they head out to school and think I have been put in so much debt by Matt George at Money Choice that I can no longer afford to put food on the table tonight, pay for the kids to go on an excursion and sorry I can't afford to get you new school shoes this term? Now turn to your wife holding your baby and say gee honey we can't make ends meet so you have to put the baby into child care and go back to work full time.

'Cos you know TF they are the stories that I have been hearing.....and you know TF I am now afraid that one of these people that Matt George at Money Choice has financially ruined is going to choose that there only option is going to be to jump off a bridge!

So please don't insult us with your arrogance! There is a face behind the dollar sign that you put in your pocket. Not just the face of the Queen. There is a face of your Mum and Dad, your wife as she nurses your child, your children as they play in the back yard. Indeed, that face is of your fellow Australian who like you had the right to be treated fairly and with respect, who had the right to know that they lived in a country that had consumer laws to protect them from people ripping them off.

So if a great lady called Denise Brailey volunteers to offer these people assistance with her organisation "The Banking & Finance Consumer Support Association" www.bfcsa.com.au formed to help protect everyday Australians from Bankers and Brokers then let's applaud them. Let's praise these people for standing up for what they believe in.

Especially when this lady is so highly regarded that she gets to stand up to present in the Senate Economics References Committee Public Hearing Inquiry into the post-GFC banking sector.

Denise Brailey is looking out for people like your Mum and Dad, and your wife and child, and your kids in your back yard and helping them from not having their homes taken away from them because they have been victims of imprudent lending.

So when you raise your eyes to the heavens and imply that normal everyday people who have some very big financial problems ultimately because of you banker ******s think of the everyday Australian that you represent whilst you pull that dollar out of your back pocket to spend on getting food on the table to feed your family. Because of brokers like Matt George and companies like Money Choice that money choice that you have has been taken away from them and as a result of no fault of their own other than trusting the wrong broker.

Don't ever forget the face behind the dollar sign.

Disgusted, You are a disgrace TF

ErinB
Click to expand...

First of all, there is probably no-one on this forum who has more publicly and consistently pointed out the signficant risks of gearing into property or spent more time getting stuck into the various spivs, rogues and ne'er do wells that populate the real estate investment landscape than me.

I consider it a worthwhile hobby, the main reason I spend time on this site and a quick search of my posts will reveal that.

I have seen and continue you see what happens when people are set upon by con artists and white collar criminals and can state with some degree of pride that I am responsible to at least two high profile spivs doing time.

However, victims of actual criminality are a tiny minority of those who get into financial strife as a result of real estate investments. The vast majority simply get carried away with the notion that RE is a risk free play (which it largely was 1993-2004), have investment strategies predicated on easy availability of credit and ever increasing asset prices, and have since found out to their considerable financial cost that it is not the case.

In my view, the voices of genuine victims of crime are currently being overwhelmed by those who have made investment decisions that haven't worked out and are looking for someone to blame.

As an example, I simply don't equate the victims of Kovelan Bangaru with people who brought a property of the plan with the hope of making a killing but now can't get finance. The former are victims of crime; the latters victims of circumstance.

Equally, I don't see much similarity between the borrower who has their application form changed without their knowledge after they've signed it and the one who signs a blank one caring not whether it is accurate or not. One is the victim of fraud; the other facilitated it.

It is on these principles where I part ways with Ms Brailey. Once everyone is a victim, no-one is.
 
My god this is getting frightening another post i agree with from TF.

That was one hell of an emotional post by ErinB however the quote she used from TF was actually a joke to me suggesting I see a doctor if i am unable to deal with agreeing with his posts, I think she misunderstood that as a smart-a*rse go at the her situation.
 
Bigtone said:
My god this is getting frightening another post i agree with from TF.

That was one hell of an emotional post by ErinB however the quote she used from TF was actually a joke to me suggesting I see a doctor if i am unable to deal with agreeing with his posts, I think she misunderstood that as a smart-a*rse go at the her situation.
Click to expand...

Yep - fun to watch, when you can see the misunderstanding...
 
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