More haste, less speed

Customer of mine was referred to me by her conveyancer.

Her lender, with whom she had had two previous mortgages, had given her a 'verbal' approval to buy a new house as she was moving back to Melbourne after a 'tree change' had gone sour.

Verbal approvals being what they are, you guessed it, she signed an unconditional contract only to find that her trusty lender reneged.

She bought the house in regional Victoria in September, 2008 for $285,000 - list price $320,000. She is moving out of this and into the new purchase on the Mornington Peninsula, purchase price $261,000.

The purchase valuation has come back at $261,000. So far, so good.

Regional Victoria, however, came back today at $240,000.

Ouch.

Ouch.

Yet more ouch.

So, no capacity to refinance the September mortgage as this would mean paying a shortfall to the current (reneging) lender

After much discussion with the assessor, he has agreed to put to credit that she can have a credit card, fully drawn at settlement, to get her in the door.

As the purchase contract is currently in rescission - not a good look for her to be out on the footpath next week - the credit card sounds wonderful.

The moral of the story is:

Do not rely on verbal assurances that 'she'll be right'
Do not rely on what you think is a bargain, or what you think the value 'should be'
Make sure that you can complete the deal before you sign an unconditional contract

OK, this customer has a strong income and can pay out the credit card within a year. The amount of interest she will pay will be minimal compared to the penalty interest on the contract, the loss of her deposit and the reselling costs if she doesn't complete the contract

But this is still a situation far from ideal. She has lost weight, lost sleep, lost money because someone from the Bank said 'no worries'.


In a falling market - and make no mistake, this market is shallow and falling - even if we negotiate a great deal the valuer may not agree with the contract price. Risk factors assume a higher importance in weak markets - time estimated to sell, lessening demand, neighbourhood drift - all these things form part of a valuers report.

Even if you are confident that you have struck a bargain, at the very least have a 'Subject to Valuation' clause in your contract. In Victoria, we are all used to Conditions of Sale - in NSW and other States the buyer is more vulnerable if the only Condition is the Cooling Off clause which can, and frequently does, result in the buyer forfeiting a small percentage of the purchase price if they withdraw.

However, an unconditional Contract can and will be upheld by the Courts so tread warily.


Hopefully, we will have loan documents by Monday and can negotiate a further two days to settle, pleading the recent public holidays. But this anxiety could have been avoided if the customer had shown a little less trust and a little more caution for her own best interests.

Caveat Emptor


You must look after your own interests and that includes taking your time to buy, not being afraid of 'losing' the property, and making sure that your finance is organised before you sign on the dotted

Cheers
Kristine
 
I guess the fatal mistake would be signing unconditional without unconditional approval?
I'm so glad my Dad hammered into me that this is something that you never ever ever ever do.

And that means EVER!

But I remember being in a situation where we had a contract to buy a much-wanted new PPOR, and the old PPOR hadn't sold when the "subject to sale" clause was expiring, and I was soooo tempted to go unconditional. We didn't, and thankfully the old PPOR sold in the nick of time, but by gosh I was tempted to break Dad's "golden rule" if we hadn't sold, so I do understand how your client got "caught", Kristine. But this example is a salient reminder of the reason why this advice is so wise.
 
A very similar thing happened to us. We made a large cash offer about five years ago based on verbal advice from a bank that we had approval only to be told later by the guy "sorry I forgot to use the other calculator we have for loans over $750k". That was after stumping up the $50k deposit too! :mad:

We were panicking after checking with other banks for the same result. Lucky one of the big four came up with the goods eventually and the rest is history...

It's worth keeping in mind though that cash offers are significantly more attractive to vendors and have a very useful place, particularly in a slow market. Just get an approval together in writing (and any finance for the deposit) before using them!
 
Well! Now I've heard everything!

This customer, after sitting in the queue since 6th March - nearly seven weeks! - has now been refused.

Want to know why?

Because of her 'station in life'.

Do you know what that means?

It means that this professional, multi-university degree highly qualified and well paid 51 year old single woman with no dependents is TOO OLD FOR A HOME LOAN!

If this wasn't so farcical I would be lodging a formal complaint about the handling of this file with this particular lender.

But

The 82 page file is now with the third lender. This feels a lot better. I have even had discussions with the Vendor and it looks as if we may finally have a win-win situation emerging.


In the past nearly six years, I have written loans for people of all ages. Never before have I even heard of the 'station in life' excuse.

Well, let them eat dust. We move on. Success is the best form of revenge.


But please, Boys & Girls, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES THINK THAT 'SHE'LL BE RIGHT'


Sometimes, just sometimes, it isn't.


Verbal approvals are not worth the paper etc Finance Clauses are there for a reason. If you have taken the trouble to negotiate the clause, don't just waft past it because you've become impatient. A bit more time in the queue is worth many thousands of dollars in penalties.


Be Alert, But Not Alarmed


LOOK AFTER YOUR OWN INTERESTS AT ALL TIMES


So there!



Kristine
 
Kristine, that's absolutely outrageous, that with DSR and LVR etc all OK (as I assume they were), this customer was refused credit, presumably because some dinosaur thinks that a 51yo woman is "too old" for a loan. I wonder if the same would apply to a 51yo man? :rolleyes:

On the topic of 51yos... Sharon Stone, Holly Hunter, Andie McDowell, Kelly McGillis, Caroline Kennedy and Ellen De Generes would all miss out. I wonder if the same applies to Alec Baldwin, Lyle Lovett, Donny Osmond and Prince Albert of Monaco?
 
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On the topic of 51yos... Sharon Stone, Holly Hunter, Andie McDowell, Kelly McGillis, Caroline Kennedy and Ellen De Generes would all miss out. I wonder if the same applies to Alec Baldwin, Lyle Lovett, Donny Osmond and Prince Albert of Monaco?

Quick! Anyone have Madonna's number? She only has 'til her next birthday to re-finance before reaching an inferior "station in life." :(
 
the fatal mistake would be signing unconditional without unconditional approval?

We did this 2 years ago. Sent an unconditional cash contract to buy an office block in the heart of the CBD to the Vendor, who gleefully accepted it.

We then casually went about our business and obtained a 115% loan to complete the deal.

Best thing we ever did. The purchase subsequently allowed me to retire with the massive rental increase we now enjoy.

Wouldn't call it a fatal mistake - in fact, quite the opposite.


.....in some markets, unless it is cash unconditional, the offer to purchase is rejected immediately.
 
We did this 2 years ago. Sent an unconditional cash contract to buy an office block in the heart of the CBD to the Vendor, who gleefully accepted it.

We then casually went about our business and obtained a 115% loan to complete the deal.

Best thing we ever did. The purchase subsequently allowed me to retire with the massive rental increase we now enjoy.

Wouldn't call it a fatal mistake - in fact, quite the opposite.


.....in some markets, unless it is cash unconditional, the offer to purchase is rejected immediately.

I wouldn't want to recommend this course of actions to others but we just secured our PPOR by doing this. I did have some idea that we could get funding & that the house would value up, BTW, even though I know there is never an approval until it's approved! It's a risky lending environment to do this compared with the past few years but riskier for some than others.
Confession: All offers I have ever given are unconditional - that's how I secure the price the want.
 
Its a double edged sword.
Using unconditional is a great bargaining tool (yes i know my offer price is low, but its all i can afford, and at least you are guaranteed a sale, what happens if the next person offers a higher price, but with a subject to clause, with property going down and all that, and with the global financial crisis, how do you know you wont get a lower price in 6 months time). Anyway my offer is only valid for the next 5 business days, i have to go interstate for work next week... blah blah blah.

In a weak property market, unconditional contracts have more negotiating power than ever, SO LONG AS YOU HAVE DONE YOUR FINANCING HOMEWORK ALREADY.
 
In a weak property market, unconditional contracts have more negotiating power than ever


I would say that unconditional have more power full stop.....doesn't matter what the market is doing.


At the end of the day, all contracts on settlement are unconditional. Cash swapped for a title. It's just a question of how much you want to phaff about before getting to this status.


Pop 6 conditions down....well that just means you need to hurdle or cross off 6 conditions one by one until you get to the cash unconditional status. Do it straight away and you are there from the start.


That's what a vendor ultimately wants. Unconditional cash contract settled right now for the highest price possible.


Conditions / finance / long sett. times and low prices are all unattractive to them.
 
I would say that unconditional have more power full stop.....doesn't matter what the market is doing.

Likewise, I've always found unconditional contracts with short settlements very attractive to vendors. The removal of uncertainty from the equation can be had to put a value on, but it's often a big factor, even when compared to contracts offering higher prices but with elements of uncertainty.
It's more about the psychology than the money.
 
Well, the mop up on this one:

No go.

Nope. Regional Victoria, with the third valuation, scaped along at $255,000, but still not sufficient to refinance the original loan and to provide sufficient funds to complete the second purchase.


To the posters who have debated the 'unconditional contract' scenario, yes this is OK if you as the buyer / borrower are in a strong position, have plenty of equity, have plenty of redraw or cash, have established histories.

For this customer, none of these factors were present. She applied to the lender she had the Regional mortgage with and if they had discouraged her from the start this situation would not have developed. However, they actively encouraged her and eventually declined, leaving her with an unconditional contract.

This is a far different situation to deliberately negotiating an unconditional contract, or even going to auction and taking your chances. This was bordering on the negligent in that the lender, while caring for themselves, was careless of the prospective borrower.

With the 'station in life' lender, the customer was issued with a Conditional Approval but the valuation was so short that the deal collapsed.

The third lender has been as helpful as possible, but without Funds to Complete the deal cannot proceed.



So I say again:

There is only one person holding your hand as you cross the busy road, and that is you.

If you are reliant on circumstances beyond your control - the market valuation, for instance - then be very sure that you have a firm grip on what you can control:

Income, funds to complete, your credit history, etc



We are in a market of opportunity - for some.

We are in a market of despair - for others.



Which market are you in? Make sure that you are in the market of opportunity by making sure that you are well prepared to meet that opportunity.



Cheers
Kristine
 
Sound advice......the banks are being very choosy about their client base!!

I wanted to go with Westpac on a lastest deal...but after dealing with idiots and butt covering...I went with CBA who already have 3 of my loans. The lady I deal with is fantastic.




It means that this professional, multi-university degree highly qualified and well paid 51 year old single woman with no dependents is TOO OLD FOR A HOME LOAN!

But please, Boys & Girls, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES THINK THAT 'SHE'LL BE RIGHT'


Sometimes, just sometimes, it isn't.


Verbal approvals are not worth the paper etc Finance Clauses are there for a reason. If you have taken the trouble to negotiate the clause, don't just waft past it because you've become impatient. A bit more time in the queue is worth many thousands of dollars in penalties.


Be Alert, But Not Alarmed


LOOK AFTER YOUR OWN INTERESTS AT ALL TIMES


So there!



Kristine
 
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