motivated vendors

[karsal]

Spot on Jaz. Simple yet effective technique.

Sadly, as stated, most agents have no idea, and I am not about to become an appologist for the industry. The very nature of the beast almost demands that you be aggressive to earn a living.

If only I had a dollar for every vendor that wanted an honest opinion on value and then gave the listing to another agent because they high balled the vendor.
Sitting back on a Monday and seeing an aution result and thinking "Told you it was only worth $300k" doesn't pay the mortgage. So what do you do?

Same goes for buyers who tell me that they can only afford $300,000, then when I call them about a new listing, I find out that they bought a home for $450,000!

It is a catch 22 situation and I strongly believe that the public are equally to blame for the state of affairs.

Most seminars don't help either as they demonise agents to promote their own Gospel.
The last person that we will help are the smart alecs who try and outsmart the agent.

My few words of advice are:
When selling, get an independant val so as to keep agents honest. For $300 it is well woth it (also a good selling tool if buyers offer too little).

Don't have any lofty expectations of us (except me of course & any other agent on the forum), as you will be let down.

Use common sense when agents underquote. If you believe a quote of $200+ and a similar house just sold for $400k, then you desrve all the crap that you get.

Find good operators (preferably an investor) and form a relationship with them. We can be one of the most effective allies in wealth creation. Treat us with contempt, and you will run into a brick wall every time. Fact: agents will offer properties off market to prefered clients who don't try and screw us.

Finally, you can say what you like. We offer a property, and it is up to you to make an informed decision. If someone was happy to pay too much for your home, would you reduce the price due to principles?

I spent 2 years working for various marketing companies that are supposed to help investors, and soon realised that Real Estate isn't such a dodgy career after all. Only today, a prospective vendor rang and I had to tell him the hard truth that he paid about $40k over for his property via a wealth creation group.

OK that's it. Too many trade secrets revealed. Might go and write a book.
Sorry if this sounds a bit defensive, but I thought it would be of interest to present the other side of the story.

Regards,
Sam

 

[geoffw]

agents will offer properties off market to prefered clients who don't try and screw us.

Karsal,

Yes, I've had the good end of the deal there.

Vendor avoided advertising, I paid a price which was fair, property is performing well... everyone happy.

 

[suggo]

I find having a contract signed and sealed seems to motivate the vendor more....hmm let me explain. We have 4 IP's now, and just out of luck I found that once the contract is signed the vendor seems to get the feeling the house is sold and relaxes. But wait, the building inspection, any faults, and I mean any faults I make sure to point out to the agent and discuss them at length, cost to us and then there is the unknown(is this the extent of the problem or is this just the surface). This has now happened on three (two of which we have bought) properties. After the building inspection we add up the costs and add a few thousand to that for the 'unknown' and submit another offer. On all three occasions the vendor has come back saying no way in a fairly forceful manner, one guy told his agent to tell us to get a new building inspector cause he reckoned ours must be a shonky!! On all three occasions we thanked the agent for their time and told them to pass on our best wishes to the vendor. A day or two later (a week in the 'shonky' building inspector guy case) the vendor has accepted our final offer. We have shaved $6500, $10000 and $7500 off the original acceptable offers, and in the first case they did half the work (new curcuit breakers and supplied a brand new stove)

I think it works because the vendor panics about having to have to go through all that trouble again finding a buyer, they feel like it's over and then suddenly they are back to square one so what's a few thousand dollars when sums are this big(167.5k, 145k, 246.5k)

I find it interesting that people can say "it's only $5000, lets just get over and done with", and yet if I was buying a car off them they would probably be insulted if I tried to lower the price by $500.

Reading back over this it sounds a little nasty to do this sort of thing, but we shouldn't let emotion in hey, it's all business.

Anyway I suppose this is one way to motivate vendors a little.

 

[brains]

"The last person that we will help are the smart alecs who try and outsmart the agent."

If so many people werent lied to or screwed by agents in the first place, there wouldnt be so many trying to outsmart (or do the same) to agents. You never hear of smart alecs trying to outsmart their doctor, dentist, local grocer, local KMart.....whatever.......


The three most common terms (for me) in the real estate industry are:

Buying a listing.
Conditioning.
Buyers are liars.

Hardly the terminology of a respectable industry.......

Oh, i forgot to mention wood duck

 

[bundy1964]

Originally posted by brains
[BIf so many people werent lied to or screwed by agents in the first place, there wouldnt be so many trying to outsmart (or do the same) to agents. You never hear of smart alecs trying to outsmart their doctor, dentist, local grocer, local KMart.....whatever.......
[/B]

Hi brains
I take it you have never seen aca or a similar program on tv before?

Scams are part of everyday life......from compo cases to asking for trade discount at the local hardware store

bundy

 

[asy]

Exceptionally well said Sam...

I think over time, most of what you have said is a repeat of lots of little posts I (and others) have made...

But, it's GREAT to have it all nicely and concisely put together.

I look forward to meeting you some day!

I am so pleased that I am not the only vocal agent on the forum (Which was the case for quite a while)!!!

asy

 

[karsal]

Hi Brains.

As stated on the thread, I am not an apologist for the industry, nor do I condone the many practises that go on.
I also cop the same crap when dealing with agents, and fully understand where you are coming from. I don't trust them either.

The point is (for one last time): Don't trust anyone.
Do your research.
Find decent agents and stick with them.

Funny, I know of friends and relatives who have bought through Jenman agencies and been stuffed around. If it suits you then fine. In the end, they also work for the vendor and will do what it takes to get the best possible price for them. So please don't be too naive and trust the system. All systems have an agenda. In the end its all about making $$$ for the business. And Neil has made squillions being the anti agent.


As for people being ripped off (not talking as an agent here), each and everyone of us is accountable for our decisions in life.
Are people too trusting, or to lazy/ uninformed in the first place (rhetorical question)? We can't change human nature, but only conduct ourselves with integrity and hope that this will be reciprocated.

And by the way, my wife reckons I'm extremely warm and fuzzy!

Cheers,
Sam.

 

[karsal]

The three most common terms (for me) in the real estate industry are:

Buying a listing.

The vendor wants too much & is shopping us against 5 other agents, and wants to screw us on commission, so tell them what they want to hear. BY the way, are we supposed to work for nothing?

Conditioning.

Vendor still wants to much so we will have to make him see reality.

Buyers are liars.

Tell us what you really want and what price range. All we want to do is match a buyer with a seller and negotiate a price so that we can get paid and move on with life.

Funny how you will accept the cost of the doctor or dentist that may prescribe unnecessary treatments. Better still, we are happy to go to KMart and pay $60 dollars for an item that costs them $5.

Who's the wood duck?

Dear Brains.
No disrespect intended and these comments are tongue in cheek.
Sounds like you've (allegedly) been done over a few times.
Know your stuff and you'll know who's being an A- Hole. Tell 'em to get stuffed, and get on with wealth creation.

Cheers mate,

Sam
Accredited BSP (Blood sucking Parasite).

 

[Kevin Hockey]

I'm right behind ya asy....

www.nundahrealestate.com.au

 

[investor]

Originally posted by karsal
Funny how you will accept the cost of the doctor or dentist that may prescribe unnecessary treatments

Hey what's the story here leave us alone.

Regards

Investor

 

[brains]

Originally posted by karsal
The three most common terms (for me) in the real estate industry are:

Buying a listing.

The vendor wants too much & is shopping us against 5 other agents, and wants to screw us on commission, so tell them what they want to hear. BY the way, are we supposed to work for nothing?

Crap...why tell them what they want to hear, whatever happened to telling them the truth? And whos talking baout working for nothing?

Conditioning.

Vendor still wants to much so we will have to make him see reality.

Lies...What has that got to do with conditioning...its all about lying.

Buyers are liars.

Tell us what you really want and what price range. All we want to do is match a buyer with a seller and negotiate a price so that we can get paid and move on with life.

Yeah right, i wish it was just that honest & simple.....

Funny how you will accept the cost of the doctor or dentist that may prescribe unnecessary treatments. Better still, we are happy to go to KMart and pay $60 dollars for an item that costs them $5.

Bullshyte....Normal public cant generally buy goods at wholesale level, so we buy at retail level, thats life.

Who's the wood duck?..........ummmmm..............dunno

Dear Brains.
No disrespect intended and these comments are tongue in cheek.
Sounds like you've (allegedly) been done over a few times.
Know your stuff and you'll know who's being an A- Hole. Tell 'em to get stuffed, and get on with wealth creation.

Cheers mate,

Sam
Accredited BSP (Blood sucking Parasite).

Yeah, right Sam...i dont believe the above comments for one second. Remind me to never buy a property off you.

People like you seem to think its a normal state of being to constantly live with your guard up cause you might get ripped off any second. That way of thinking is a sad indictment on the real estate industry.

**The above comments were intended as a humorous reply to Sam's post and are not intended in any way to offend, if however, they have offended please accept our sincerest apologies and we retract the comments unreservedly**

 

[see_change]

Originally posted by brains
" You never hear of smart alecs trying to outsmart their doctor, dentist, local grocer, local KMart.....whatever......."

As a GP , I come across people on an almost daily basis who for various reasons try to "Out smart me" . Whether it is for a sickie, drugs or some form of compensation claim.

As with realestate agents you reap as you so . In the last recession , the first people to get laid off were the ones who were always coming in with gastro on monday mornings. Having a denied workers compensation claim goes a long way to impress you next potential employer, and people have gone to jail for faking insurance claims.

Brains , I'm a natural cynic ( as most Doctors are ) , and doubt every thing I'm told ( especially on this forum ).

BUT I find if I treat people in an honest and pleasant way 95 % of the time I get a good response.

If you have such a negative response from agents , maybe YOU need to have a good look at how YOU are treating them.

There are many quotable quotes around . One goes along the lines of. Give me the courage to change what I can change , the knowledge to accept what I can't change and the wisdom to know the difference.

See Change

 

[bundy1964]

Originally posted by see_change

[There are many quotable quotes around . One goes along the lines of. Give me the courage to change what I can change , the knowledge to accept what I can't change and the wisdom to know the difference.

See Change

You can also add

The luck to hide the bodies of the people that pi$$ me off along the way

bundy

 

[karsal]

This will be my last posing on the matter.

Humans are generally governed by greed and fear.
When selling, greed can be a major influence. In ten years, I have been lucky to secure 5% of listings where I have been honest in valuation.
Get an independant val, add costs and a little profit and list at that price, and I will only be to happy to be honest with you.
Tell them the truth?
To qoute the great Jack Nicholson: " You can't handle the truth!!!"

Work for nothing? We get screwed or rather, pathetic operators allow themselves to get screwed on commission. This is partly due to a dog eat dog mentality within the industry, and the fact that agents can't sell themselves and thier alleged negotiating skills. Sad but true. We have another saying for employees: List and last. This is why the industry is run as it is.

Why pay retail?
There are alternatives to shops if you are prepared to look. I always ask for a discount. Who was it that said: Buy straw hats in winter and umbrellas in summer?

I never live life with my guard up in case of being ripped off. I always do my homework and make an informed decision.
Like See Change, I traet people well and 95% they do the same for me. The ohter 5% only get me once. What goes around comes around. I also find that I hardly have problems with trades people. Whereas a dera friend is always highly suspicious and negative. She always has problems finding good ones. Coincidence? Or are there greater forces at work? Believe it or not.

As for telling lies, people can get offended if you tell them the truth. If we were all open and honest all the time, there would be a sudden rise in the murder rate. Same law applies to dealing with vendors. You can pick your mark, but with others, diplomacy(?) is required to persuade them.

Once knew a dentist who told me that he would always touch another tooth with the drill and secure some repeat business.

You wouldn't buy a house from me?
Neither would I! I'd end up paying too much.
But you'd sure want to sell through me!

Have to go as Mr and Mrs Sucker just walked through the door,
Sam.

 

[Kevin Hockey]

Hi Karsal, I just wanted to give you my support to everything you have said, although I hadn't thought of using the Jack Nicholson analogy.

A recent sales meeting I had with my sales staff was on this exact topic. My point to them was the owners do not want to hear the truth, they want us to tell them what they want to hear. It's a fact, whether we like it or not, and uneducated vendors become a part of the problem because they are prepared to reward the dishonest agent.

Kev

www.nundahrealestate.com.au

 

[bundy1964]

The way I see it the only way to keep the vendor in line is to make them have an indipendant valuation.

This would of course not sit well with investors.

Vendors will always want to sell high, investors will always want to buy low and PPOR buyers will let emotion get in the way.

Not much can be done about that even with what Neil J has to say.

Who wants land fixed at $X a sq metre and houses at $Y fixed to inflation?

The current system may be almost as good as we can fairly get?

bundy

 

[Kevin Hockey]

The only problem with having a valuer go in is everyone knows they always play safe and most often are low in there assessments. Then its left to the owner to decide how low they were. You still end up with the same result.

The other problem is the owner can't see why they should pay for a valuer when we should know what it's worth. Thing is we do, but they don't want to hear the truth.

The best thing an owner can do is thoroughly investigate the market and complete there own comparison. Still not perfect but whenever I meet an owner with a realistic opinion of their price, it's always because they've done their homework.

Kev

www.nundahrealestate.com.au

 

[bundy1964]

Hi Kevin

I think those knowledgable vendors have also removed there rose coloured glasses as well.

Due diligence works best with a reality check as well

bundy

 

[brains]

Originally posted by Kevin Hockey
The only problem with having a valuer go in is everyone knows they always play safe and most often are low in there assessments. Then its left to the owner to decide how low they were. You still end up with the same result.

The other problem is the owner can't see why they should pay for a valuer when we should know what it's worth. Thing is we do, but they don't want to hear the truth.

The best thing an owner can do is thoroughly investigate the market and complete there own comparison. Still not perfect but whenever I meet an owner with a realistic opinion of their price, it's always because they've done their homework.

Kev

www.nundahrealestate.com.au

Kevin,

The point isnt that the vendor doesnt want to hear the truth.
The real point is that if you told them the truth you wouldnt get the listing because another agent has lied and bought the listing.

So, its a problem endemic to the whole RE industry.

ps: And anyway, just because someone doesnt want to hear the truth is no reason to lie to them. Yourself and Sam are doing some great spin doctoring, but it doesnt wash with me.

pps: Sam,

If you were to buy from my company in the industry that we are in, i could rip you off without you knowing, but i wouldnt because
thats not my style and the industry we are in hasnt a history of being flakey, so theres no need to.

 

[Kieran]

In over a decade of property investing I have always found that (for what it's worth) ...

"NOTHING FINDS A KEEN VENDOR LIKE A WRITTEN OFFER CAN"