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Mould..Who is responsible?
- Thread starter jim1964
- Start date
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On the matter of mould, one of our insured landlords is currently going through an issue:
Tenant has been residing in a property for 12 months, there was a slow water leak into the property as a result of a problem with the balcony of the unit upstairs.
It takes all kinds. If someone thinks they can get a buck out of you, they will give it a try.
Tenant has been residing in a property for 12 months, there was a slow water leak into the property as a result of a problem with the balcony of the unit upstairs.
- The tenant didn’t advise the agent or landlord of the problem and the room eventually became mouldy.
- The tenant took the landlord to court wanting rent compensation as he had rented a 2 bedroom property and could only use 1 room.
- Despite the fact that the tenant didn’t report the damage to the landlord, the landlord was ordered to pay $10,000 in compensation to the tenant.
- The tenant subsequently submitted a liability claim on the basis that the mould had caused respiratory problems with their baby.
- This claim is still ongoing and again has cost thousands of dollars whilst the battle for the final determination continues.
It takes all kinds. If someone thinks they can get a buck out of you, they will give it a try.
That is so stupidly unfair that I am flabbergasted
.Like the judge who awarded a huge payout to the couple who were not even in the country and whose son's friend dived off a fence into the canal and was paralysed. I believe the ruling was overturned, and rightly so.
How can a landlord be held responsible for something like that if they don't know about it? Stupid, stupid, stupid. What on earth was the judge thinking?
Tenants should do what I would do I my house had mould due to lack of ventilation or the way we choose to live. Clean it like they would if they owned the place.
I couldn't agree with you more, there are some very bizarre (in my eyes) cases that we are seeing right now in liability judgements. It really can be a case of rewarding stupidity.That is so stupidly unfair that I am flabbergasted
Like the judge who awarded a huge payout to the couple who were not even in the country and whose son's friend dived off a fence into the canal and was paralysed. I believe the ruling was overturned, and rightly so.
How can a landlord be held responsible for something like that if they don't know about it? Stupid, stupid, stupid. What on earth was the judge thinking?
Tenants should do what I would do I my house had mould due to lack of ventilation or the way we choose to live. Clean it like they would if they owned the place.
Similar to the canal story (which I recall), we have a current one where a tenant living in a townhouse complex went on a binge, late at night jumped the locked pool fence and injured themselves severely and sued the manager. The original reserve (which has since been lowered) placed on the claim was $2.2M.
When my husband and I first got married, we rented an apartment with horrible mould in the bathroom. Being an enthusiastic newlywed and wanting to impress my husband with my domestic prowess, I tried to keep on top of it. Countless hours spent scrubbing away with Exit Mould and every other product imaginable (didn't know about vinegar or oil of cloves at the time). Eventually I gave up. We never had inspections.
After that we rented another apartment with a slightly less but still very horrible mould problem in the bathroom. We had six monthly inspections so every six months I'd scrub away the night before. In time, my husband even took part in these six monthly rituals.
Never got sick. Besides the watery eyes and noses, red eyes and stinging skin during the cleaning frenzies, that is.
If I rented a place with mould and the mould was making me sick, I'd move. Litigation wouldn't even enter my head. Sometimes I feel so primitive.
After that we rented another apartment with a slightly less but still very horrible mould problem in the bathroom. We had six monthly inspections so every six months I'd scrub away the night before. In time, my husband even took part in these six monthly rituals.
Never got sick. Besides the watery eyes and noses, red eyes and stinging skin during the cleaning frenzies, that is.
If I rented a place with mould and the mould was making me sick, I'd move. Litigation wouldn't even enter my head. Sometimes I feel so primitive.
It comes down to the landlord being responsible for the tenant's behaviour and choices. I assume that could include responsibility if anyone is damaged as a result of criminal behaviour by the tenant as well. For instance, harm from the tenant's drug lab. If anything goes askew the landlord could lose everything.
I keep coming back to wondering why proper a risk management plan -risk assessment and risk treatment- is not part and parcel of property management. I suppose it is because residential rental property is provided mainly by small mums and dads investors who are unaware just how exposed they are until a Tribunal or Court informs them otherwise. Most of us are in that boat and there are plenty of litigious tenants about.
Risk management
I am a layman, but ultimately it must come back to incorporating oneself in some way to limit a crushing loss. Insurance is only a part solution.
Also, how to find out if your applicants for tenancy have pursued or otherwise threatened landlords in the past?
I keep coming back to wondering why proper a risk management plan -risk assessment and risk treatment- is not part and parcel of property management. I suppose it is because residential rental property is provided mainly by small mums and dads investors who are unaware just how exposed they are until a Tribunal or Court informs them otherwise. Most of us are in that boat and there are plenty of litigious tenants about.
Risk management
I am a layman, but ultimately it must come back to incorporating oneself in some way to limit a crushing loss. Insurance is only a part solution.
Also, how to find out if your applicants for tenancy have pursued or otherwise threatened landlords in the past?
OK you have got my interest. What kinds of risks would you consider and how would they be managed or mitigated (or accepted)?
Yep, Im waiting for a reply on this too....??
READ YOUR LEASE! READ YOUR MANAGEMENT DOCUMENTS!
You can complain as much as you want, but unless you've specified that certain home maintenance is compulsory, you probably don't have a legal leg to stand on.
Every contract that I've signed has a special conditions clause. Why not use it?
I live in my own home and have a terrible mould problem. Lucky I don't have a problem with it and can deal with it at my own pace. If I lived in a rental home and had a mould problem, I would deal with it (unless it was out of control). Just because you rent doesn't mean that you can shirk all responsibilities.
Most places are rented out 'as is' so if you move into a place that is over run with mould, rats, or cockroaches, you can't complain later down the track
You can complain as much as you want, but unless you've specified that certain home maintenance is compulsory, you probably don't have a legal leg to stand on.
Every contract that I've signed has a special conditions clause. Why not use it?
I live in my own home and have a terrible mould problem. Lucky I don't have a problem with it and can deal with it at my own pace. If I lived in a rental home and had a mould problem, I would deal with it (unless it was out of control). Just because you rent doesn't mean that you can shirk all responsibilities.
Most places are rented out 'as is' so if you move into a place that is over run with mould, rats, or cockroaches, you can't complain later down the track
I reckon reading the RTA will get you waaay further.
Your latter statement is clearly not how the Tribunal Member sees it.
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Its from another forum but there you go.
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http://www.propertyinvesting.com/forums/property-investing/help-needed/4345226
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Its from another forum but there you go.
.
http://www.propertyinvesting.com/forums/property-investing/help-needed/4345226
.
Allergic reactions
One of our daughters is allergic to mould
As with most allergies i.e. itchy, red, watery eyes, blocked or runny nose, uncontrollable sneezing, headaches and disturbed sleep, wheezing or an asthma attack, a scratchy throat, hives.
Apparently:
In winter we had some dramas with mould in the bathroom and tried exit mould, which worked well, but it returned, then a vinegar solution which worked well, but it returned. We also replaced the bathroom exhaust fan, searched for a dehumidifier at places like Bunnings, Harvey Normans etc (but couldn't find one), we also changed from a gas heater to reverse cycle air-conditioning and left the window ajar in the bathroom (bit chilly in winter, but hey, no more mould issues).
She's also allergic to cats/dogs, nothing else that we're aware of though
There's been some good info with the thread and on the PI link
Have you ever tried Oil of Cloves in water (check Shannon Lush website to get the exact ratio - she is insistent that the correct ratio is used - it seems many people think "I'll use a bit more... just in case").
I've mixed some in a spray bottle and used it on our bathroom tiles. It does work.
I'd be curious to know if someone with a bigger mould issue that my bathroom tile issue has used this combination, and whether it is better than vinegar, exit mould etc.
.....but if the Tenants refuse to lift a finger and it gets progressively worse until their health becomes an issue....then it is the Landlord's problem.
Case well and truly open.
Hi,
I have just bought a house in Newcastle and overlooked moulds inside one of the the built-ins during the inspection; luckily the building inspector found it and noted down in the report - so vendor agreed to 'properly" celan it out.
However, at settlement (28 days later), we found that moulds were also growing happily on window tracks (we did not checked during inspection) and corner of ceiling in 2 rooms (was not thereat inspection-this we checked).
We talked to bldg inspector who confirmed that roof is not leaking; so we concluded that poor ventilation is the main cause.
It was very easy to remove all the moulds with bleach solution and paint brush; but it takes time. Then we do mould spotting all over the house so we can attack them all at once.
We now keep the house airy and open the window as often as possible, the moulds haven't come back yet (after 30 days).
Given the very moist winter in 2012, many people kept their window shut while heating the house. Condensation (moisture) could not escape, and provide a perfect growing medium for the micro-organisms.
So its not hard to get rid off it; just time+bleach+paint brush.
MKP
I have just bought a house in Newcastle and overlooked moulds inside one of the the built-ins during the inspection; luckily the building inspector found it and noted down in the report - so vendor agreed to 'properly" celan it out.
However, at settlement (28 days later), we found that moulds were also growing happily on window tracks (we did not checked during inspection) and corner of ceiling in 2 rooms (was not thereat inspection-this we checked).
We talked to bldg inspector who confirmed that roof is not leaking; so we concluded that poor ventilation is the main cause.
It was very easy to remove all the moulds with bleach solution and paint brush; but it takes time. Then we do mould spotting all over the house so we can attack them all at once.
We now keep the house airy and open the window as often as possible, the moulds haven't come back yet (after 30 days).
Given the very moist winter in 2012, many people kept their window shut while heating the house. Condensation (moisture) could not escape, and provide a perfect growing medium for the micro-organisms.
So its not hard to get rid off it; just time+bleach+paint brush.
MKP
I'm not speaking from experience but from many times hearing Shannon Lush say that bleach doesn't kill mould, but simply "bleaches" it. You cannot see it but it is still there.
She reckons the Oil of Cloves in water (in correct ratio) is the best thing to kill mould. I'd love to know if anybody has used this (in larger problem areas than my bathroom tiles) and whether it has stopped the mould from returning.
Now now Daz, getting a bit biased towards your comm side of things.
In NSW there is a mould report section on the standard lease document provided by the authority DFT.
No mould at start of tenancy, then if mould appears then tenant needs to clean up.....unless, of course, there is a leaking roof or water getting into the property and the cause of this mould.
Now, that is black and white to me and I will (and have already) stand buy that in my dealings with tenants. And so far it's not been a problem.
Stop trying to scare people from resi Daz, it's not helpful you know it.
We all are in awe of your achievements mate but fair dinkum, remember where you came from in the first place and allow others to do the same ok...?
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