Mould..Who is responsible?
- Thread starter jim1964
- Start date
There could be multiple reasons for the mould and it would be difficult without getting reports as to determine the source. It may be that mould was an issue before and that the previous tennant either dealt with it themselves, or lived differently (i.e. being open windows type of people).
If no quick solution can be found as to the source, you could always buy one of those portable dehumidifiers. Choice magazine did a review on them recently, http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests/household/heating-and-cooling/home-heating/dehumidifiers-review-and-compare.aspx#Brands.
We got one of the Omega ones (the cheapest and equal best from the review) for our PPOR a few years ago for something like $300 and it has solved all our problems. We used to find huge puddles at the bottom of our windows in winter, which caused mould, and now just put the dehumidifier on for an hour or two around the house everyday. No more issues.
You could buy one for the tenant, and tell them that they are to pay for the power to use it. Not very expensive to run. If they are good tenants this could be an easy, and relatively cheap solution. The unit would also be depreciable.
If no quick solution can be found as to the source, you could always buy one of those portable dehumidifiers. Choice magazine did a review on them recently, http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests/household/heating-and-cooling/home-heating/dehumidifiers-review-and-compare.aspx#Brands.
We got one of the Omega ones (the cheapest and equal best from the review) for our PPOR a few years ago for something like $300 and it has solved all our problems. We used to find huge puddles at the bottom of our windows in winter, which caused mould, and now just put the dehumidifier on for an hour or two around the house everyday. No more issues.
You could buy one for the tenant, and tell them that they are to pay for the power to use it. Not very expensive to run. If they are good tenants this could be an easy, and relatively cheap solution. The unit would also be depreciable.
Maybe the previous tenant used the split system more so than the current tenants. This would have had the same effect as a dehumidifier in that it would have removed substantial moiture from the air.
Perhaps the previous tenants opened the windows for longer periods of time.
Many variables to consider.
We have a Delonghi dehumidifier in our apartment and run it for 4-5 hours per night. Prior to buying it, the windows were dripping with moisture which, in turn, would pool and soak into the carpet. Traffic noise and the cold weather meant opening the windows at night wasn't really an option.
I'd buy them a dehumidifier or ask them to crank up the A?C from time to time to deal with the moisture issue.
Perhaps the previous tenants opened the windows for longer periods of time.
Many variables to consider.
We have a Delonghi dehumidifier in our apartment and run it for 4-5 hours per night. Prior to buying it, the windows were dripping with moisture which, in turn, would pool and soak into the carpet. Traffic noise and the cold weather meant opening the windows at night wasn't really an option.
I'd buy them a dehumidifier or ask them to crank up the A?C from time to time to deal with the moisture issue.
Mould is a HUGE issue right now.
We have had an unbelievable increase in the number of tenants complaining of mould - and with some really serious consequences:
(one pending court case for over $70,000.00 in back rent, property damage, compensation; claims for medical bills for tenant's bronchitis & respiratory diseases etc).
Our office has talked about it with solicitors, RTA, QCAT etc - and what we've come up with is that if the property has any defects that might lead to mould accumulating - ie Roof Leak, plumbing leak inside wall, rising damp then it's not the tenant's responsibility. The tenant MUST however report the mould immediately. If they let it get really bad, then they need to take some of the responsibility.
If the mould is there for any other reason, or reasons unknown, then the tenant is responsible.
It gets tricky sometimes - for instance we have some brand new properties that the builder decided didn't require a bathroom exhaust fan. so there is mould in the bathroom. Who's fault then?
When you tell most tenants to open windows or run the air con or dehumidifier, they complain about energy costs, security, no flyscreens etc. it's pretty tough, and the courts make their rulings based on the size of the claim and how bad the photos look (unless you have a mould report that allocates fault).
My best advice is spend $250 on a "mould report" that will state the reason for the mould accumulating. If it turns out to be the owner's responsibility, then it needs to be rectified immediately, or risk being held liable for the health issues it can cause.
Matt
We have had an unbelievable increase in the number of tenants complaining of mould - and with some really serious consequences:
(one pending court case for over $70,000.00 in back rent, property damage, compensation; claims for medical bills for tenant's bronchitis & respiratory diseases etc).
Our office has talked about it with solicitors, RTA, QCAT etc - and what we've come up with is that if the property has any defects that might lead to mould accumulating - ie Roof Leak, plumbing leak inside wall, rising damp then it's not the tenant's responsibility. The tenant MUST however report the mould immediately. If they let it get really bad, then they need to take some of the responsibility.
If the mould is there for any other reason, or reasons unknown, then the tenant is responsible.
It gets tricky sometimes - for instance we have some brand new properties that the builder decided didn't require a bathroom exhaust fan. so there is mould in the bathroom. Who's fault then?
When you tell most tenants to open windows or run the air con or dehumidifier, they complain about energy costs, security, no flyscreens etc. it's pretty tough, and the courts make their rulings based on the size of the claim and how bad the photos look (unless you have a mould report that allocates fault).
My best advice is spend $250 on a "mould report" that will state the reason for the mould accumulating. If it turns out to be the owner's responsibility, then it needs to be rectified immediately, or risk being held liable for the health issues it can cause.
Matt
What health issues arise from mould ?
We rented a place once and the back room was covered in mould, we spent plenty on exit mould and mould eater thingys but never once complained as it was obviously on the south side and really wet humid location.
Never got sick, never really thought much of it either, just cleaned it up when bad and got on with life.
Why is there this litigious angle to everything these days?
We rented a place once and the back room was covered in mould, we spent plenty on exit mould and mould eater thingys but never once complained as it was obviously on the south side and really wet humid location.
Never got sick, never really thought much of it either, just cleaned it up when bad and got on with life.
Why is there this litigious angle to everything these days?
There are plenty actually. Some people (like you, obviously) are less affected. Others can be made very sick.
Because it is everybody else's fault and they have to pay.
Recently bought a dehumidifier from Appliances Online (not a plug) the unit draws out substantial quantities of moisture. It may be worth paying for one (about $400) and it will cover about 40-50 m2 so more than a few rooms.
I have had tenants complain of mould on clothes etc even though they do ventilate the premises - dehumidifier has helped but when there are base building problems (like leaky bathroom).
I have had tenants complain of mould on clothes etc even though they do ventilate the premises - dehumidifier has helped but when there are base building problems (like leaky bathroom).
From what exactly?
Unless you lick the stuff off the ceiling maybe?
Open the windows and doors, I reckon people are poisioning themselves with toxic gas from heating appliances and no air movement during winter. There has to be some fresh air.
You wouldn't believe the drama queens out there who aren't what you'd describe in the bush as "robust individuals".
The threat of litigation is a wonderful device to make responsible citizens absolutely **** themselves, and hence we have the situation where everything is couched in a "if you don't do this, we'll do this".
I agree with you, the Tenant should open the window...especially during the day, grab a bottle of exit mould and a rag and go to it. Half an hour and the problem is vamoos.
Nope, far better to take 57 pictures and sit back and watch it grow, fold your arms and write a threatening letter. Many people have a "can't do" attitude nowadays, and will happily let a situation that affects them badly deteriorate even further if they reckon someone else should do something about it.
The thought of mucking in there, fixing the problem in 30 minutes and then moving on with life wouldn't even cross their mind, and the # 1 priority for them is to prove a legal point, especially if it is against some bar steward who is collecting the rent off them.
Fortunately we don't have to deal with this nonsense either with what we invest in. One of our Tenants complained of mould in the kitchen area to us. We showed them the Lease. The Tenant ended up replacing a section of the roof, and a big part of the ceiling. Cost them about $ 7,300. Once they had finished, no more mould, and I had my roof and ceiling repaired. I was very happy.
I told them never to bother me again with such petty complaints.
It's not just the black spots you see on the ceiling or walls. The mould releases thousands of spores into the air that can
In my line of work as a BA, I occassionally see some VERY bad examples - and although I'm a very healthy bloke (having lived on a dairy farm for 1/2 of my first 20 years) - I've come away from these places with a running nose & eyes, numb lips, and a wheeze and cough.
For the life of me I cannot understand why, as Dazz says, the tenants don't buy a spray pack of Exit Mould and some cheap no-name white vinegar and put 30 minutes into cleaning it off - as well as actually ventilating the place properly
However, I've seen the mentality, whereby it is all the resi LL's fault. And "everything in my cupboard has gone mouldy too, and I want compensation", attitude from some tenants.
Sometimes it is a building defect of course. Blocked gutters that overflow back inside the eves and walls, leaking plumbing etc. And these are the LL's responsibility to fix.
But I suspect most times, it is also the lack of ventilation in these modern times:
People shut their places up because of security fears.
They also leave home early and arrive back from work late - meaning they do not open windows and doors.
Even modern housing does not have the wall vents that you see in older homes.
Exhaust fans are not turned on in bathrooms during winter as it feels too cold and uncomfortable.
All these things need to be addressed by the people that live there.
I agree totally.This thinking must be old school
now i have to play the game.my PM emails to me quote..........we do not believe the tenant is totally responsible............right,so you watch black mould grow on the walls as a hobby.I now have to get a 'mould opinion"(these are new phrases to me),to see who is at fault,and who pays.Bit of a joke,normally i would have thought just buy some exit mould,clean it up and keep an eye on it.All too hard,the tenant pays rent and expects professional services to clean everything up.Will advise the outcome!!There's your real problem right there.
The mismatch between the miniscule amount of rent actually paid, versus the massive goods and services expected to be rendered. The two simply don't equate.
Of course, the Tenant would not agree with that opinion, nor would any tribunal.
I wouldn't be surprised if you are supplying the house at ~ $ 15 per room per night. Seriously, what level of service can they reasonably expect for that ?? The RTA of course demands bookoo....and this is where you are stuffed.
Good luck.
The last place I rented was very mouldy. South facing apartment, ground floor. Wet winter.
As you say. Clean it and get on with life. Get some mould eaters for the cupboards and try and keep as much air moving through as possible.
This was a pretty bad case (clean it and it came back a couple of weeks later with vengeance) but it's not the owners fault that they bought a south facing unit 40 years after it was built.
A few drops (quarter teaspoon) of oil of cloves to 1 litre water kills mould and prevents its return.
Mould inspection and removal is a fledgling industry with a solution to a problem they are trying hard to make.
But doubtless like everything else it will become a 'legal' problem that only a 'professional' can identify and correct. The tribunals will see to that. That includes professional advice that a problem doesn't exist (still challenged by tenant though).
As every tenant knows, a house is the landlord's investment, he is making money out of it and he can fix it.
Back to buffing up the processes for tenant selection and reading newspaper reports where tenants wonder why rents are going up.
Mould inspection and removal is a fledgling industry with a solution to a problem they are trying hard to make.
But doubtless like everything else it will become a 'legal' problem that only a 'professional' can identify and correct. The tribunals will see to that. That includes professional advice that a problem doesn't exist (still challenged by tenant though).
As every tenant knows, a house is the landlord's investment, he is making money out of it and he can fix it.
Back to buffing up the processes for tenant selection and reading newspaper reports where tenants wonder why rents are going up.
Lease agreement has a condition report that says house clean and free of mould at start of tenancy.
I got a call from a tenant the other day saying mould starting to appear in bedroom (faces south).
It's been a wet cold winter and tenant agreed its hard to ventilate when cold.
My advice was grab a bottle of exit mould and a bit of elbow grease and problem solved.
Tenant said ok then.
Next day another call complaining about how hard it is to wipe the ceiling from ladder and sore elbows etc
I said do as I did when we were renting and had mould. Grab a small floor mop, one with a foam pad and extension handle and do it standing on the floor, easy peasy.
Next day tenant emails me thanking for the great advice and mould all cleaned up.
Unless the roof has a water problem, which it does not, then why should owner be responsible for tenants mess?
I got a call from a tenant the other day saying mould starting to appear in bedroom (faces south).
It's been a wet cold winter and tenant agreed its hard to ventilate when cold.
My advice was grab a bottle of exit mould and a bit of elbow grease and problem solved.
Tenant said ok then.
Next day another call complaining about how hard it is to wipe the ceiling from ladder and sore elbows etc
I said do as I did when we were renting and had mould. Grab a small floor mop, one with a foam pad and extension handle and do it standing on the floor, easy peasy.
Next day tenant emails me thanking for the great advice and mould all cleaned up.
Unless the roof has a water problem, which it does not, then why should owner be responsible for tenants mess?
We had court last night.Tenant is claiming the spot of mold that appeared on her ceiling has caused her depression and thyroid disease. Since she moved out at end of June, her health has vastly improved. When I asked why we had to postpone our hearing a couple of weeks ago, her response was "my body is excreting all the toxins" (she said she had a kidney infection)
I asked if she had any tests done to prove it was mold....no, that would cost too much money.
Did she call in a building inspector? ...no, that would cost too much too. I informed her, tenants can call them in for free.
Why did she only mention mold once, and when our superintendents went to view, it was gone....she didn't want to complain.
It was only when she wanted to break her lease to move in with her boyfriend, there was any problem.
In 60 days, we will know if she will need to pay that last month of her lease.
She said her feelings were hurt, because we didn't ask her to bring us a note from her doctor. This is a government worker !!!
I asked if she had any tests done to prove it was mold....no, that would cost too much money.
Did she call in a building inspector? ...no, that would cost too much too. I informed her, tenants can call them in for free.
Why did she only mention mold once, and when our superintendents went to view, it was gone....she didn't want to complain.
It was only when she wanted to break her lease to move in with her boyfriend, there was any problem.
In 60 days, we will know if she will need to pay that last month of her lease.
She said her feelings were hurt, because we didn't ask her to bring us a note from her doctor. This is a government worker !!!
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