Navra Fund Down
- Thread starter AussieBob
- Start date
Sim
Administrator
Actually, just did some research - from yahoo.com.au finance, ASX200 closed at 3248.5 on Nov 3, and at 3174.4 on Nov 17.
By my calculations, that is a 2.28% drop.
According to Steve's fund performance calculator on his website, over the same period his fund has dropped... 2.36%
So, while Steve expects to outperform the index, he has actually very slightly underperformed over the same period (which I chose arbitrarily based on data I had on hand, and 14 days is not a terribly good length of time to do comparisons).
By my calculations, that is a 2.28% drop.
According to Steve's fund performance calculator on his website, over the same period his fund has dropped... 2.36%
So, while Steve expects to outperform the index, he has actually very slightly underperformed over the same period (which I chose arbitrarily based on data I had on hand, and 14 days is not a terribly good length of time to do comparisons).
Aussiebob needs to read the Navra website again to see how the Fund works. Buy when the price falls. Sell when it rises. Hold a %age of the funds in cash ready for the best buys. Volatility is good.
And as previously pointed out a squillion times, invest for a minimum of five years. This is dollar cost trading, not dollar cost averaging.
Aussiebob might get quicker returns putting his money on the horses. Then again, he might not.
SG
And as previously pointed out a squillion times, invest for a minimum of five years. This is dollar cost trading, not dollar cost averaging.
Aussiebob might get quicker returns putting his money on the horses. Then again, he might not.
SG
Slide?????
See: http://www.navrainvest.com.au/index.asp?content=wholesale_fee
Navra Blue Chip Australian Share
Wholesale Fund Previous Quarter YTD
S&P/ASX 200 Price Index 4.75% 4.94%
Gross Fund Performance 5.35% 4.95%
Gross Fund Out Performance 0.60% 0.01%
So in the previous quarter the fund exceeded the index by 0.60%
And so far this finanacial year we are just up on the index by 0.01%
The market has been in decline this past week and we are buying shares at very cheap prices. A turn around will show good profits for the fund, BECAUSE we have purchased at the low points!
Example:
As at 31/10/2003
Retail Fund
The S&P200 index was at +8.14% and we were at +8.25%
Wholesale Fund
The S&P200 index was at +8.14% and we were at +8.26%
Not bad returns for the first 4 months!
An excess return for our clients. Please note that we earn only earn a performance fee on outperforming the index, whereas other funds charge you the fee irrespective. (So you would have to deduct the fee cost from the performance . . . which is not the case with us.)
However, Sim is correct, a few weeks is too short a time period to measure the performance.
Note this: The Navrainvest funds create the greatest opportunity for gaining value by buying into the market at low points. Since we started the funds the market has gone up at a rate not seen for over a decade . . . which make entering the market very difficult. The fact that we have outperformed the index in a rising market is a "Miracle"!!
Please see Meeting Point for details of our client get together / Share launch . . . and Caveat Emptor for the share offer prospectus.
Regards,
Steve
Hi Bob.
I can see how you could get that impression if you initially looked at the Retail Performance Graph on Steve's website for November. From the 3/11 to 18/11 the Retail Fund has dropped about 2.85% and that can look pretty dramatic on that chart!
However, keep in mind the S&P/ASX200 has fallen from 3257 to 3175(or 2.5%) in the same period so it's not really as bad as it may initially look on Steve's Performance Graph.
Picking just the last few weeks is not really fair to the fund or for that matter, just picking a few months.
I would imagine the best current indication(and this is probably still too early) is if we take the performance from 1/5/03 to 18/11/03 which at least gives us the full operating period.
For this period, Steve's Graph shows a performance of 4.91% compared to an Index performance of 5.7%(3004 to 3175).
Based on the methodology described on Steve's website, it would appear likely that some performance 'lag' may be expected in just a strictly rising market too.
Relatively early days ........but I'm sure we can all appreciate and acknowledge the massive logistical effort in even getting a fund like this set up and operating at this stage.
Hope it goes well.
1y Perf(%)
EQT Wholesale Small Companies Fund 65.59
Credit Suisse Prvt Investment Aus Small Cap 50.01
Challenger Smaller Companies 49.88
ING Emerging Companies Trust 48.51
ING Resource Opportunities Trust 42.48
Glebe Small Cap Equities Trust 39.87
ANZ Australian Resources Trust 33.78
Sagitta Small Companies 33.30
Portfolio Partners Emerging Shares Trust 32.73
Colonial First State Developing Companies 31.91
AMP Small Companies Fund 31.46
and way down...
BT Australian Share Fund 14.05
HSBC Imputation Fund 14.02
Colonial First State Australian Share Fund 13.64
Westpac Deutsche Australian Equities 13.59
ING Australian Shares 13.53
ANZ Equity Trust No.1 13.46
IOOF Flexi Trust Australian Equity 13.43
Suncorp Investment Fund Aus Shares 13.19
CFCL Growth Bond Australian Equities Fund 13.17
Suncorp Investment Fund Australian Shares 13.14
CFS CIM Australian Share 13.01
....
AMP Blue Chip Fund 11.11
...
Skandia APN Property for Income Fund 9.00
CFS Sagitta Rothschild Property Securities 8.45
...
Colonial Insurance Bond Series 4 Australian Fixed Interest 12.93 % !!!!
EQT High Income Fund 8.68
CFCL Investment Growth Bond Fixed Interest Fund 8.22 %
etc etc etc
bbg2003
source: http://moneymanager.smh.com.au
EQT Wholesale Small Companies Fund 65.59
Credit Suisse Prvt Investment Aus Small Cap 50.01
Challenger Smaller Companies 49.88
ING Emerging Companies Trust 48.51
ING Resource Opportunities Trust 42.48
Glebe Small Cap Equities Trust 39.87
ANZ Australian Resources Trust 33.78
Sagitta Small Companies 33.30
Portfolio Partners Emerging Shares Trust 32.73
Colonial First State Developing Companies 31.91
AMP Small Companies Fund 31.46
and way down...
BT Australian Share Fund 14.05
HSBC Imputation Fund 14.02
Colonial First State Australian Share Fund 13.64
Westpac Deutsche Australian Equities 13.59
ING Australian Shares 13.53
ANZ Equity Trust No.1 13.46
IOOF Flexi Trust Australian Equity 13.43
Suncorp Investment Fund Aus Shares 13.19
CFCL Growth Bond Australian Equities Fund 13.17
Suncorp Investment Fund Australian Shares 13.14
CFS CIM Australian Share 13.01
....
AMP Blue Chip Fund 11.11
...
Skandia APN Property for Income Fund 9.00
CFS Sagitta Rothschild Property Securities 8.45
...
Colonial Insurance Bond Series 4 Australian Fixed Interest 12.93 % !!!!
EQT High Income Fund 8.68
CFCL Investment Growth Bond Fixed Interest Fund 8.22 %
etc etc etc
bbg2003
source: http://moneymanager.smh.com.au
Hi bbg2003,
Your point is well made:
I notice however that you show a full 1 year performance . . .
Two comments:
The past 365 days has seen the market decline to a low between March and May this year and then elavate to the highest point a few weeks ago.
Aaaah, had the fund started a year ago we would have purchased down to that lowest point and then realised the level of returns you mention! (Easy in hindsight of course
)The fact is that we started the fund in May 03 and can thus only trade to market conditions . . . these being about the steepest incline for a decade over such a time period.
Everyone is a hero in an increasing market . . .
It might be more pertinant to measure performance in less favourable market conditions, like the 2001 financial year as an example?
Over the time period that the Navra Funds have opperated, we are very handily place as per 'Morningstar' ratings.
I would love to say that a 6% to 8% return per quarter after fees is good. Also, if one extrapolates this out for a full year then it will look even more wonderful.
However it remains a big IF:
And that would be beng predictive, which as you know we never are.
Regards,
Steve
Lets compare apples with apples here.
I am not siding with Steve navra here but all the 30+% return funds are higher risk funds. If you had a list like this back in 1999 you would have technology funds at top of the list. Would you have invested?
My understanding is that Steve's fund is a Blue chip fund. So lets compare his with others like his
I am not siding with Steve navra here but all the 30+% return funds are higher risk funds. If you had a list like this back in 1999 you would have technology funds at top of the list. Would you have invested?
My understanding is that Steve's fund is a Blue chip fund. So lets compare his with others like his
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Another dummy spit
Personally I don't know why people are bothering to reply to Aussie Bob.
The fact that he felt it neccessary to make his comment shows that he has a complete lack of understanding of the share market and managed funds.
We have a two lines from someone who no one knows..So what ..
No one invests in managed funds for the short term . To start making comparisons in this situation is incorrect and off track.
When "Aussie Bob " has something worthwhile to say , people should respond, but at this stage he comes across as one of those worthless, smallminded people who troll through the internet , looking to stir up controversy for the sake of stirring.
Aussie Bob , Get a life
See Change
Personally I don't know why people are bothering to reply to Aussie Bob.
The fact that he felt it neccessary to make his comment shows that he has a complete lack of understanding of the share market and managed funds.
We have a two lines from someone who no one knows..So what ..
No one invests in managed funds for the short term . To start making comparisons in this situation is incorrect and off track.
When "Aussie Bob " has something worthwhile to say , people should respond, but at this stage he comes across as one of those worthless, smallminded people who troll through the internet , looking to stir up controversy for the sake of stirring.
Aussie Bob , Get a life
See Change
AussieBob,
Did you invest any money with Steve Narva?
Regards
Jerry
Did you invest any money with Steve Narva?
Regards
Jerry
Actually no
Some people seemed to be taking his comment as something worth serious consideration.
I was giving it the respect I thought it deserved.
BTW , I have no funds in the Steve Fund, so I have no vested interest.
The comments I make when I get out of bed the wrong side, get deleted before I hit post. You should have seen the stuff I was originally going to post in my last dummy spit...
See Change
Some people seemed to be taking his comment as something worth serious consideration.
I was giving it the respect I thought it deserved.
BTW , I have no funds in the Steve Fund, so I have no vested interest.
The comments I make when I get out of bed the wrong side, get deleted before I hit post
. You should have seen the stuff I was originally going to post in my last dummy spit...See Change
Pardon me See Change..........remind me to contact you in the future to check if it's ok if I reply to a post will you?
Quite right.......I have no idea who Aussie Bob is........likewise I don't know you.
Has the Navra Fund taken a bit of a dive in the last couple of weeks? Yes........and there are probably legitimate reasons for that dive. I interpretted Bob's question as simply wanting to know what some of those reasons are and Steve and others made clarification comments to that affect.
Is it legitimate to critique and comment on the fund? Since it is aiming to sell more shares in the near future I would have thought this was not only healthy but quite useful.
Can't see the reason for a dummy spit with this one?
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Hi All,
Hmmmmm, perhaps we should tone down the rhetoric?
I think all comments are valid, more importantly reality will be the true judge of what constitutes valid or otherwise.
By way of further explanation:
At 30th Oct a report appeared in SMH listing the top Super Fund performers. (These are balanced funds as are the Navrainvest Funds as we hold Blue Chip Shares and Cash in various proportions.)
The Top rated Super Fund was BT (Ex Sagitta) at 7.19%
On that same day the Navra Funds were performing at 8.25%
I received many phone calls from the investors expressing delight, especially as they had received their locked in quarterly income and we were performing above the index AFTER all fees.
Since then, the market has come off quite considerably including a large decrease in Corporate Express. These occurances represent great opportunity to buy shares and specifically CXP at very good value.
Obviously this is exactly what we have done!
Now please speak to me when the market has an upward correction . . . say back to the level as at the end of October and then the gain from these opportune purchases will become very evident.
This is how Dollar Cost Trading works!
Steve
PS: We are still above the Index after fees: 12-07pm 20/11/03
Hmmmmm, perhaps we should tone down the rhetoric?
I think all comments are valid, more importantly reality will be the true judge of what constitutes valid or otherwise.
By way of further explanation:
At 30th Oct a report appeared in SMH listing the top Super Fund performers. (These are balanced funds as are the Navrainvest Funds as we hold Blue Chip Shares and Cash in various proportions.)
The Top rated Super Fund was BT (Ex Sagitta) at 7.19%
On that same day the Navra Funds were performing at 8.25%
I received many phone calls from the investors expressing delight, especially as they had received their locked in quarterly income and we were performing above the index AFTER all fees.
Since then, the market has come off quite considerably including a large decrease in Corporate Express. These occurances represent great opportunity to buy shares and specifically CXP at very good value.
Obviously this is exactly what we have done!
Now please speak to me when the market has an upward correction . . . say back to the level as at the end of October and then the gain from these opportune purchases will become very evident.
This is how Dollar Cost Trading works!
Steve
PS: We are still above the Index after fees: 12-07pm 20/11/03
Sorry, my point is that small caps are currently "ruling" the market, and maybe thats the type of investment that we should be looking at. (as far as equities goes)
Small caps are normally the first off the mark after a few bad years. Yes there is risk involved, as in everything i life, but if you already have most of your equity in real estate (direct) then you should look at a "higher risk" investent class for not more than 5% of your wealth.
In my view it's not worth investing a relatively small portion of my total wealth in managed funds or shares unless you are expecting a pretty good return (imho >20%). (with the inherent risk)
If I can't at least hope for that kinda return I think my money is better put towards paying off my property loans regardless of which structure or entities I use for ownership.
cheers
bbg2003
Small caps are normally the first off the mark after a few bad years. Yes there is risk involved, as in everything i life, but if you already have most of your equity in real estate (direct) then you should look at a "higher risk" investent class for not more than 5% of your wealth.
In my view it's not worth investing a relatively small portion of my total wealth in managed funds or shares unless you are expecting a pretty good return (imho >20%). (with the inherent risk)
If I can't at least hope for that kinda return I think my money is better put towards paying off my property loans regardless of which structure or entities I use for ownership.
cheers
bbg2003
Sim
Administrator
Ahh, well you didn't say that in your original post bbg... what you explain now is quite valid - for some.
For others who are simply looking to diversify their exposure into equities and prefer blue-chip Australian Shares - Steve's fund could be a good choice.
Higher risk investments naturally come with higher volatility - many people don't want that for whatever reason.
So, in my opinion, bbg, you should feel free to totally ignore Steve's fund and any posts about it, since it obviously doesn't meet your criteria.
For others who are simply looking to diversify their exposure into equities and prefer blue-chip Australian Shares - Steve's fund could be a good choice.
Higher risk investments naturally come with higher volatility - many people don't want that for whatever reason.
So, in my opinion, bbg, you should feel free to totally ignore Steve's fund and any posts about it, since it obviously doesn't meet your criteria.
Hi bbg2003,
Don't ignore my fund!!!
I agree with you . . . imho > 20%
Steve
It's interesting that a few people have equated higher returns with higher risk.... For most, that may be the case, but it certainly isn't the rule. Case in point: Warren Buffett. Those familiar with Warren's style of investing will know that he whittles the risk down to (almost) zero in most cases, but to date has been the most successful investor in history, with an average 23% over a number of decades.
Note: this was just a quick point to show that higher returns do not necessarily mean higher risk, a pont I make because I believe that over the coming years, Steve will prove this point with his fund as well.
Note: this was just a quick point to show that higher returns do not necessarily mean higher risk, a pont I make because I believe that over the coming years, Steve will prove this point with his fund as well.
