Navra Legal Action

All this basically means a sophisticated investors is one with at least $2,5mil in assets and an annual income of $250k

More than that Terry.

They also need to get a certificate from a qualified accountant to confirm that status - and therefore (essentially) exempt themselves from the usual consumer protections (among other things).

So I don't think having said income or net assets is enough... it sounds like you actually have to ask to be deemed a sophisticated investor - so it is by choice (and, I could be wrong, but it sounds like you're not deemed to be an SI automatically even if you do meet the income / net asset thresholds).
 
More than that Terry.

They also need to get a certificate from a qualified accountant to confirm that status - and therefore (essentially) exempt themselves from the usual consumer protections (among other things).

So I don't think having said income or net assets is enough... it sounds like you actually have to ask to be deemed a sophisticated investor - so it is by choice (and, I could be wrong, but it sounds like you're not deemed to be an SI automatically even if you do meet the income / net asset thresholds).

Yes, that is correct.
 
For Lord Sim

I believe a sophisticated investor would generally make their own decisions and not rely on advice from a financial advisor on how to invest.

There is a perception in the wider community that many "financial advisers" are dodgy people who make more out of their commissions than they do from investing.

Faced with this reality, most mum and dad investors prefer to go it alone; they can hardly be called sophisticated investors. They need all the protection they can get!

{Edit by Sim: if you have a question about moderation, contact me directly}
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I went to create an account and I got a message "502 bad gateway" after entering my details- however a confirmation email had been sent out asking for confirmation of account. This then blocked that email from being used again.

FYI - I've just spent the past two days trying to locate the source of that bug ... and some of the fixes I tried caused havoc with other sites and services :eek: - this is what all the outages yesterday were about :(

I've ended up needing to deploy a completely new server with the very latest version of PHP on it to get around that bug (FYI, it was a bug related to the APC caching library which was causing PHP to segfault!).

As annoying as it was to spend all this time to try and fix this bug, I would rather do it now than after we migrate Somersoft to XenForo. Shouldn't be a problem in the future - I'm not using APC on the new server (APCu for now for backwards-compatibility, ideally a more robust solution like Redis long term).
 
My apologies Sim for giving you the extra work :-(

Not your fault - it needed to be fixed. I appreciate you pointing out the error - I hadn't noticed before then, it affected all of my XenForo based forums.
 
Sim , Geoff

Off topic ...:cool::eek:;)

Cliff

Kind of ... but one of the posters was asking for more information, I directed him to another website where he could find that info, he had some problems signing up to that site, I was just letting them know it was fixed so they could now log in to get access to the info relevant to the topic of this thread.

That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it! :p
 
We were/are at the effect of advice from Steve Navra. We were NOT sophisticated investors, between the 2 of us we earned below 100K per year. We sought advice because we had no idea what we were doing and relied on a ?professional?. The structures that we were put in and exposure we had did NOT fit the profile of what we should have been investing in. We lost practically everything at the time of the GFC and none of it was in any way our due to our ?greed? as Steve Navra liked to refer to the people who lost money under his ?care?. We asked for advice and followed that advice and were financially decimated. NOW we know better. But at the time we were lambs to the slaughter. We are still involved with the whole Great Southern thing and who knows how that will turn out? Fortunately we did not get involved with the Navra Structured Property Fund. I remember a quote that went something like this: When someone with money meets someone with experience, the person with experience lands up with some money and the person with money lands up with some experience? We have just had to pick up the pieces as best as possible, hug our kids and take pleasure in the simple things in life. Hopefully what has happened to us will be of some value as a warning to others who may avoid the pot holes on their journey through life.
 
The term "sophisticated investor" is defined in the Corporations Act at s761GA
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s761ga.html

See also s708
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s708.html

And Regulation 6D.2.03 of Corporations Regulations 2001
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/cr2001281/s6d.2.03.html

All this basically means a sophisticated investors is one with at least $2,5mil in assets and an annual income of $250k

and with it comes a lot of financial opportunities but also increased risk (in that basically you are presumed to have adequate financial knowledge to make your own informed decisions).

The major financial brokerage firms that I talk to won't even deal with clients unless they have this. I have to supply one every couple of years. It protects them from being sued.

By the way I think the above is or not and (ie $2.5mill or $250K)
 
Personally, I've learned to be extremely wary of structured products where you are effectively locked in to a (long) fixed term and have very little flexibility in the situation where things go bad. .

?

If there is one underlying essential comment from this thread, this is it.

Very very very few people really understand the nature of structured products.

In my opinion even the people who created them?

Why?
because of the assumptions that go into them.

Do a google search on Long Term Capital Management (LTCM). Now these guys were the 'smartest' kids on the block. They had noble economic prizes or some such. They were smart, far smarter than any of the people on this forum.

And yet what did that 'smartness' in regards to structured products achieve.
 
We were/are at the effect of advice from Steve Navra. We were NOT sophisticated investors, between the 2 of us we earned below 100K per year. We sought advice because we had no idea what we were doing and relied on a ?professional?. The structures that we were put in and exposure we had did NOT fit the profile of what we should have been investing in. We lost practically everything at the time of the GFC and none of it was in any way our due to our ?greed? as Steve Navra liked to refer to the people who lost money under his ?care?. We asked for advice and followed that advice and were financially decimated. NOW we know better. But at the time we were lambs to the slaughter. We are still involved with the whole Great Southern thing and who knows how that will turn out? Fortunately we did not get involved with the Navra Structured Property Fund. I remember a quote that went something like this: When someone with money meets someone with experience, the person with experience lands up with some money and the person with money lands up with some experience? We have just had to pick up the pieces as best as possible, hug our kids and take pleasure in the simple things in life. Hopefully what has happened to us will be of some value as a warning to others who may avoid the pot holes on their journey through life.

Sorry to hear of your plight. But is it a navra thing or a gfc thing? Plenty of people lost money during gfc with and without the advice of another party.
 
Sorry to hear of your plight. But is it a navra thing or a gfc thing? Plenty of people lost money during gfc with and without the advice of another party.

Hi dtraeger,

We had absolutely no knowledge of investing, shares, property etc. thus we sought the advice of a 'Professional', in this case Steve Navra. Financial plans were created, which we thought, in our ignorance was 'best practice'. We followed the advice to the letter. Only much later when FOS and other financial planners got involved did it become apparent how totally inappropriate the advice was. So in answer to your question - it was definitely a 'Navra' thing. The GFC was what exposed the advice for what it was resulting in us experiencing massive losses. As the saying goes, you only know who is naked once the tide goes out. If the GFC had not hit, there is a chance that the poor advice would not have been exposed, or not exposed as devastatingly as it was, but the fact remains that given our circumstances we should never have been placed into the structures that we were. :(
 
Hi dtraeger,

We had absolutely no knowledge of investing, shares, property etc. thus we sought the advice of a 'Professional', in this case Steve Navra. Financial plans were created, which we thought, in our ignorance was 'best practice'. We followed the advice to the letter. Only much later when FOS and other financial planners got involved did it become apparent how totally inappropriate the advice was. So in answer to your question - it was definitely a 'Navra' thing. The GFC was what exposed the advice for what it was resulting in us experiencing massive losses. As the saying goes, you only know who is naked once the tide goes out. If the GFC had not hit, there is a chance that the poor advice would not have been exposed, or not exposed as devastatingly as it was, but the fact remains that given our circumstances we should never have been placed into the structures that we were. :(

Go Girl, I'm very sorry to read of your plight. First up, can I just say, what GFC? I'm so sick of hearing that we dodged the GFC thanks to the wonderful management of the previous Government! I lost everything it took me 50 years to save with sheer hard work and sacrifices. Around 500k in monetary terms. I read recently, somebody say, when Labor comes to power, sell, sell, sell. When Conservatives take power, buy, buy, buy. How I wish I had read that back in 2007. I now realise that wealth redistribution was part of the agenda with the Carbon Tax being a major part of that.
I do not wish to get too political, but one has to consider why it was that the Australian Share market performed so poorly in relation to other major markets which recovered quickly post GFC. Even now we are still way off all time highs, unlike the US and UK.
I was heavily invested in the Navra Income funds and the Noosa property Market. I couldn't have been in two worse investments. I very nearly invested in the Asian Growth Fund, but luckily ASIC discovered something wrong with the PDS and Navra were forced to offer to refund my investment of 30k. Thank goodness fate helped me dodge that particular bullet!
IMO Steve Navra misled me, but it took me far too long to lose trust in him. He made the big mistake of panicking and selling out of the market at the worst possible time, going to cash at the bottom of the market. He did this twice. Yet he was too slow to reinvest when the market started to recover. Despite assuring myself and many others on the Navra Forums that he would re enter the market at a predefined level, he didn't do so. Thankfully, when this happened a second time, I was so angry that I sold out of the fund and preserved what was left of my capital and invested that into the market myself, and from that day, started to claw back some of my losses. It was a nightmare period that I have been trying to put behind me, but it has affected so many aspects of my life and led to periods of deep depression over the past six years. Things have finally started to improve for me over the past six months (I don't know why that should be !) and I sincerely hope they will for you also,
Lorrimer
 
Last edited:
Welcome Lorrimer

The US Market seemed to race away from the Australian Market from May last year. In fact if you invested then, you'd probably be up 50% now (plus divs), whereas the Australian Market (ASX 200) would be up around 15% (plus divs)

Dow Jones Industrial Average now 16,452.72

I read this recently

On March 9, 2009, the S&P 500 plummeted to a Great Recession low of 676. Since then, the index has enjoyed a robust run - up more than 170%.
 
The Navra saga

Hi everyone, I received a call today about a group seeking compensation for investors whom received advise from Navra. I was not a customer of Navra but know some people who were.

There is a meeting being held in Penrith Tuesday 16th September, I believe the lawyers may tape the meeting for those who cannot attend.

I can pass on all the information that I have including meeting specifics, just PM me your email address and I'll forward you the details.

Mark
 
The term "sophisticated investor" is defined in the Corporations Act at s761GA
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s761ga.html

See also s708
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/s708.html

And Regulation 6D.2.03 of Corporations Regulations 2001
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/cr2001281/s6d.2.03.html

All this basically means a sophisticated investors is one with at least $2,5mil in assets and an annual income of $250k

Just from the sidelines Terry is the income from the return from investments or does that include someone still working in a Business or other forms of employment with income in and around 250k..
 
Just from the sidelines Terry is the income from the return from investments or does that include someone still working in a Business or other forms of employment with income in and around 250k..

See the relevant section:

(9C) In determining the gross income of a person under subparagraph (8)(c)(ii), the gross income of a company or trust controlled by the person may be included.
 
Back
Top