Neil Jenman - in Chat - 08:30pm Sunday 4th April

[michaelg]

Hi,

Neil Jenman, a consumer advocate and campaigner for real estate ethics, will be in the 60 Minutes (TV Show) chat room on Sunday 4 April at 8:30pm AEST.

Click here to login in:

http://community.ninemsn.com.au/chat/60minutes.asp

Regards
Michael G

 

[Jamie]

One of the sections of the show itself is also reported to be about Vic Ollis, director of Country House and Land Sales (mentioned a few times on the forum before).

Should be an interesting episode.

Jamie.

 

[paul_s]

pretty lively in there, perhaps a couple of hundred people, got one question answered.

 

[Jamie]

What an absolute joke...

A bunch of mindless questions sanitised by the moderators and answered with the insight of reading the ingredients off a packet of soup.

Should have known better than to expect much though

I particularly liked his quote that said

Dont worry about money..
worry about being kind to one another

Easy to tell people not to worry about money when you're a multimillionaire.

Jamie.

 

[yuch.]

I think it was a complete waste of time. He didn't answer my questions.

And all the questions were filtered to make him look good.

 

[Aceyducey]

What did you all expect

No online chat is ever allowed to become controversial or confrontational!

Too much legal & political risk

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[Sunstone]

Dear guys,

Even the whole story on 60 minutes was a waste.

Anyone that doesn't do their own due diligence and is blinded by greed in my opinion practically deserves the results that they have received.

Cheers,

Sunstone.

 

[geoffw]

Dear guys,

Even the whole story on 60 minutes was a waste.

Anyone that doesn't do their own due diligence and is blinded by greed in my opinion practically deserves the results that they have received.

Sorry Sunstone, I beg to disagree.

Ordinary people, with no knowledge, and with no knowledge on how to get that knowledge, have taken action in good faith. They didn't know better- and they did not have the resources to find better. I didn't know better, and I did not have the resources to find out better for IP 1 (and IP2 to some extent)- but I did OK with them, if not spectacularly.

This forum helped me to avoid the Gold Coast scams- and it helped a colleague to avoid that too.

But I can understand that people have bought properties for the simple intention to provide for their own retirement. I don't think that in itself is a greed thing. Without this forum, I could have been caught in the same way (in the way I was caught by the agricultural "tax effective" industry).

 

[Phil_H]

They made a mistake and got sucked in ... did anyone pick up what they paid for the IP and what it would be worth now if they hadn't sold ?

I think Jan mentions that in one of her books

Cheers

Phil

 

[Lissy]

Interesting story. I admit I tend to fall on the side that says that we are all responsible for our own actions and choices, and so shouldn't blame others if we get sucked into a scam.
However the one part that I find hard to stomach is the banks. They knew how overpriced these properties were, but because they had the security of a family home, they went ahead and lent the money anyway. No, they weren't under any obligation to mention how overpriced the houses were, but I find it sad that nobody seemed to think they should mention it.
One part that I found a little confusing, though, was why did some of these people lose their family home? In the end, if you don't sell the IP and you make your payments on the loans, you shouldn't lose anything, no matter how overpriced the IP was. That suggests to me that it wasn't the IP that was the problem, these people never had the capacity to pay in the first place in the event of a problem, however temporary.
It just reinforces the idea - have your contingency plans in place!!

 

[Jude78]

The only thing i can say is it sure made me realise the importance of a good buyers agent....all i could think when listening to the story was that i these poeple should be paying for the right help rather than accepting 'free' help from those people just out to make a buck. My two cents

 

[Aceyducey]

The only thing i can say is it sure made me realise the importance of a good buyers agent....all i could think when listening to the story was that i these poeple should be paying for the right help rather than accepting 'free' help from those people just out to make a buck. My two cents

Jude,

It still gets back to your own responsibility.

You cannot choose to pay for good advice.

The advice has to be good REGARDLESS of whether you pay for it or not!

There's plenty of expensive bad advice out there.

You need to have the desire and learn the ability to actually screen the advice yourself so that you know you're getting your money's worth!

I fear and dread the day the government legislates that to buy a property you must use a government-licensed buyers' agent....just as to access stock and other investments you have to use a government-licensed stock broker or financial planner.

(Unless you're considered by the GOVERNMENT as a sophisticated investor - a level that's set for all people at the same point. It is just as effective as declaring someone is mature enough to manage their own actions by the number of days since their birth!)

This step would discourage people even further from taking responsibility for their own actions.

And the advisers get paid regardless of whether their advice is reasonable or not - it simply has to be plausible!

Allow people to take responsibility for themselves, to make their own mistakes - and if this journey costs money, it is money well spent!

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

I wonder why it took so long for 60 minutes to do a story on this. They admited themselves that this scam has been quite active on the Gold Coast (and other places) for over 10 years.

It's also interesting to note that many of the examples they were giving, would have made a significant profit by now, if the person who was scammed had of just held onto it.

I agree that these people are responsible for their own mistakes, but I can understand that the preasure and sale tactics would make them sign. What's irrisponsible is that those professionals who are being paid by the purchaser to act on their behalf (banks and solicitors) are really working for the vendor.

If I bought a house and the next day someone from out of town offered me double, why would I say no?

 

[Jude78]

Aceyducey

I totally agree with your comments thats why i guess i said 'good' buyers agents. I constantly see many people who get the wrong advice well meant due to the generic nature of it but just fits the particular situation wrong.

 

[JumJones]

However the one part that I find hard to stomach is the banks. They knew how overpriced these properties were, but because they had the security of a family home, they went ahead and lent the money anyway. No, they weren't under any obligation to mention how overpriced the houses were, but I find it sad that nobody seemed to think they should mention it.

Lissy, I guess this is something that should be 'cleaned up' for the good of the industry? I seem to recall that john fitzgerald (7 Steps) actually has as one of his top criteria for choosing a lender that they must divulge their valuation.

I've never had a problem with getting a banks valuation out of them, but I know to ask (nicely). Maybe there should be a legal requirement for the purchaser to sign off on the banks valuation?

JJ

 

[willair]

PT Bear,
This sort of scam has been on the Gold Coast for over 30 years just
different faces ,The trouble is some property dont think logically
and once they step outside thier own fields of knowledge and expertise
then the so called experts step in to hold thier hand,this is the way i look at the gold coast property market/You can teach a parrot to talk/Step into any
jungle and you wont find many parrots talking.
good luck
willair..

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

10 years, 30 years, it makes no difference. I know people want to be led, but really, making a major investment in an area you know nothing about is simply stupid.

People will believe or not believe predictions of growth, but taking someones word for it when they tell you the price is a recipe for bankrupcy. These same people probably researched and bought their own home. They may have paid more than they should have, but they were probably confident that they didn't paid a huge amount to much. They probably researched and negotiated when they bought the family car. Why can't they do the same when purchasing an investment property?

Lets face it, wealth is a finite resource. If you're making money, someone else is probably loosing it somewhere. If you're ethically comforable with how you're making it, will you loose sleep over someone going broke because they failed to do their due dilligence?

 

[Alan H]

Lissy, I guess this is something that should be 'cleaned up' for the good of the industry? I seem to recall that john fitzgerald (7 Steps) actually has as one of his top criteria for choosing a lender that they must divulge their valuation.

I've never had a problem with getting a banks valuation out of them, but I know to ask (nicely). Maybe there should be a legal requirement for the purchaser to sign off on the banks valuation?

JJ

Ditto.

I've always insisted beforehand that I get the valuation and to date I've never had a problem with this.

 

[Cat09Tails]

Do they still do those free fly trips to the gold coast? I SO want to go on one. Does anyone know if they still exist? And yeah, I know about Ollis' free bus trips, but I have a thing about not scamming pensioners, so that one isn't good for me. But a free trip to the gold coast? Absolutely, I'd be in on it!

What happens if you don't buy whilst on the trip? Do they push you out of the plane? I wonder has ANYONE not bought whilst up there?

Cat

 

[Ecogirl]

I'm suprised that this does still happen given the publicity that this has received in the media over the last few years. Do people not listen to the news or read the paper? The passengers didn't all appear to be new migrants so you assume some would have heard about this previously - yet they still attend in droves.

The thing that got to me was the banks - I thought they had a code of ethics - now they seem to belong in the class of used car sales persons (very PC? and I apologise for the stereotype, there may be some ethical used car dealers out there).

I wouldn't mind the plane trip though - do I get to keep my frequent flyer points? A company up here in Drwn had a similar 'educational seminar' here last month - I believe it was for real estate investing in Qld.....sounded too dodgy for me.

Ecogirl