No LMI Medico package

[jonmardell]

Apparantley Im a "top performing gold broker". Not sure how that happened A few more deals and I could be on fire. It would be less painful

Spoke to five different people today to get an answer to what I thought was a simple question and still don't know the answer. Oh well there is always tomorrow morning to make sure I avoid the options to not get sent to the Philippines which is a whole other story!

only the overflow gets sent overseas to avoid longer wait times, i was told the first 100 calls are answered in aus and then any above that at the same time go overseas.

 

[Rolf Latham]

CBA now doing IO and trusts for medico again

As from today we have enhanced our Medical Professional Offer. The key changes to our offer are:
? loan amounts now available up to $3 million (per security) with an LVR ≤ 85% (excluding Home Seekers).
? package now available to Registrars in the listed professions.
? interest only repayments available for investment home loans.
? applications for non-trading companies and/or trusts may be considered for investment purposes.
? maximum lending per loan is $3 million and maximum lending per customer is $5 million.


ta
rolf

 

[perthguy]

Any other professions that get these benefits?

Do the banks assess certain professions and cases individually?

AMP has Affinity Package which requires membership of an affinity association. This includes Australian Computer Society (ACS), so IT professionals get a nod.

Full list here: https://www.amp.com.au/wps/portal/a...nnel=3b3415c3979c2210VgnVCM10000083d20d0aRCRD

For this you get a discounted interest rate and discounts on fees. Not sure about no LMI up to 90% LVR

https://www.amp.com.au/wps/portal/a...nnel=3b3415c3979c2210VgnVCM10000083d20d0aRCRD

1% off the standard variable rate looks good to me. I wonder if I am eligible for membership with the ACS?

 

[CHAOS]

This topic had me curious about what is a 'profession'. Some info I came across said 4 year learned degree plus compulsory registration with an relevant organisation. Another determinant was that the occupation had the interest of the public at its core. Doctors look after health, lawyers, protect citizens.

RN - registered nurse. They have to answer to the Australian Nurses and midwifery board, standards, code of ethics etc.

In Vic - teaching became a profession in 2003. You must be registered, follow code of ethics, meet standards and ongoing requirements to maintain registration and be able to practice.

Engineering - registration required

Accountants - does this only include CPAs?

Wikipedia lists 24 occupations it considers professions. I wonder where the bank derives their criteria from?

 

[CHAOS]

I get it now. I just read through the AMP listed professions. I see accountants linked in there. And it clicked .... it is a gender thing, boys club, predominantly male dominated occupations, while times have changed / are changing in that female numbers in these occupations are increasing - it is still a man's world.

Makes sense why teachers and nurses are excluded - predominantly female professions.

 

[Aaron_C]

Makes sense why teachers and nurses are excluded - predominantly female professions.

That's not true. The professions listed tend to earn a lot more than teachers and nurses and are therefore less of a credit risk.

 

[CHAOS]

That's not true. The professions listed tend to earn a lot more than teachers and nurses and are therefore less of a credit risk.

Banks assess earnings of all applicants as part of their credit risk.

So why the need for this 'professional' club?



The maximum earning end of these professions is higher. It is also dependent on the individuals ambitions, specialisations, public v private practice. Not all these doctors, solicitors and accountants earn 200k nor do all teachers and nurses earn 50k. I would say in the 90-120k bracket there would be quite a bit of overlap of these occupations.

 

[Rolf Latham]

That's not true. The professions listed tend to earn a lot more and are therefore less of a credit risk.

meh

my anecdotal evidence from LMI providers is that many higher income earners get into deeper strife because they have more rope.

They tend to also be more "sophisticated" in terms of willingness vs capacity to pay.

Those that work in foreclosures and collections may be able to verify or deny my findings

ta
rolf

 

[Aaron_C]

Banks assess earnings of all applicants as part of their credit risk.

Credit risk has a lot more to it than simply how much you earn. It's about the quality of those earnings. Just cause a doctor may earn $50k doesn't mean he's treated the same as a factory worker who earns $50k.

So why the need for this 'professional' club?

I don't know - they want to attract these types of customers?

The maximum earning end of these professions is higher. It is also dependent on the individuals ambitions, specialisations, public v private practice. Not all these doctors, solicitors and accountants earn 200k nor do all teachers and nurses earn 50k.

Banks work on averages as they work on billions of dollars of loan books. People in these professions tend to have stronger incomes, less credit risk and less defaults - and are therefore the type of customers banks like. I don't see what the issue is. It doesn't matter if one nurse earns $120k while a doctor may earn $90k. The doctor will always be a preferred borrower. Just cause you found an exception doesn't make the underlying credit assumptions incorrect.

 

[tobe]

Its no good looking for rational answers around banking and finance.

Either its policy, or it isnt. Dont get it confused with logic, or rationality.

 

[Aaron_C]

my anecdotal evidence from LMI providers is that many higher income earners get into deeper strife because they have more rope.

Well that's for the LMI providers to decide and price accordingly which is why LMI is an exponential cost.

In any case, I am rebutting the ridiculous assertion that it is some male chauvinistic boys club who are entitled to the package.

 

[jonmardell]

I get it now. I just read through the AMP listed professions. I see accountants linked in there. And it clicked .... it is a gender thing, boys club, predominantly male dominated occupations, while times have changed / are changing in that female numbers in these occupations are increasing - it is still a man's world.

Makes sense why teachers and nurses are excluded - predominantly female professions.

Banks do not come up with these policies lightly and a lot of thought and statistical analysis goes into it. St George recently expanded their LMI waiver product to Accountants/Lawyers/Mining Professionals. The main reason is their arrears on these professions are significantly lower than others.

 

[CHAOS]

In any case, I am rebutting the ridiculous assertion that it is some male chauvinistic boys club who are entitled to the package.

Aaron I was curiously looking into what occupations are considered 'professional'. My observation was based on my familiarity with the history of education, social status and gender. In the past it was men who went on to further education and women became homemakers. It was also the wealthy or connected that had access to the education and therefore had the opportunity to become doctors and lawyers, engineers and accountants. These historically were/are very male dominated professions. For a long time men were the sole breadwinners. In the banks eyes these are highly regarded attributes.
So what I am saying is that the banks still reflect this belief whether consciously or not. Bank employees don't question why an IT association member gets a special package and a nurse doesn't. They just accept the rules and enter the data.


Income was not one of the listed criteria that determined a professional - you asserted that the listed professionals earned more and bought the credit risk into the discussion. By your own admission a doctor on 50k is not treated the same as a factory worker on 50k. Why? Social class - and banks reinforce this.

Teaching and nursing is considered a profession in wider society but still in banks all professionals are not equal - and my conclusion was one of gender. Law and medicine were the original professions, engineers and accountants came later but were recognised.

 

[Aaron_C]

Well last time I checked, female doctors are entitled to the package as well. I went to law school and most of my classmates were female. Same with my accounting classes. There is no problem, unless you want to look for one.

 

[CHAOS]

Banks do not come up with these policies lightly and a lot of thought and statistical analysis goes into it. St George recently expanded their LMI waiver product to Accountants/Lawyers/Mining Professionals. The main reason is their arrears on these professions are significantly lower than others.

Buy yet again an applicant is defined by their occupation. Not by their financials.

What is a mining professional?

On an application is just the higher income earners occupation used? For example if it is a joint application then do both applicants need to be accountants to get the waiver?

I wonder if paying for an accounting degree will be cheaper than forking out LMI?

 

[Terry_w]

What is a mining professional?

Someone who wears a hard hat and a necktie.

 

[Aaron_C]

Buy yet again an applicant is defined by their occupation. Not by their financials.

Which is great if you are a female lawyer, doctor, accountant etc. You know that women are entitled to become one of these professionals too?

 

[CHAOS]

Well last time I checked, female doctors are entitled to the package as well. I went to law school and most of my classmates were female. Same with my accounting classes. There is no problem, unless you want to look for one.

Aaron the question is why are teachers and nurses NOT entitled to a special package under the 'profession' umbrella.

The key words you missed was 'predominately male' when I referred to doctors and accountants.

 

[CHAOS]

Someone who wears a hard hat and a necktie.

No necktie - OH&S. Ooops my mistake -that wouldn't be the professionals getting dirty underground.
The professionals would be inside in the airconditioning with their hard hats on

 

[Aaron_C]

Aaron the question is why are teachers and nurses NOT entitled to a special package under the 'profession' umbrella.

You already answered your own question. I already stated that the other professions have massive earning potential which lowers their credit risk and I'm sure the facts from lender's own risk profiling confirm this. Obviously teachers and nurses don't meet this eligibility criteria.

The key words you missed was 'predominately male' when I referred to doctors and accountants.

Yes but why is that even important? The fact that you care about whether a profession has more/less females or not is just strange and irrelevant to bank policy which is based on statistical data.