NRAS questions

The property's NRAS entitlement is already in place and owned by one of the 1349 consortiums, BEFORE you buy it...

This was our problem and ulitmately the reason why we decided to just scrap the NRAS side of the deal. In the end we have a good little IP but not the NRAS $ due to lack of communication and information from people that should have known better.

There was also going to be extra fees for solicitors charges to 'draw up the paperwork' - approx $600 from memory - and an extra inspection of some sort that would have cost a grand or two (can't remember all the details it was 18mths ago). And so it went on, a bit here, a bit there and with the xtra costs of management which we faced it was getting questionable whether it was worth the hassle frankly.

Long story short, we decided it wasn't.

Things might be better now though.
 
This was our problem and ulitmately the reason why we decided to just scrap the NRAS side of the deal. In the end we have a good little IP but not the NRAS $ due to lack of communication and information from people that should have known better.

There was also going to be extra fees for solicitors charges to 'draw up the paperwork' - approx $600 from memory - and an extra inspection of some sort that would have cost a grand or two (can't remember all the details it was 18mths ago). And so it went on, a bit here, a bit there and with the xtra costs of management which we faced it was getting questionable whether it was worth the hassle frankly.

Long story short, we decided it wasn't.

Things might be better now though.

well at the end of the day- if you're forfeiting 20% of the rent but getting $9981 back tax free as compensation, and the consortium is taking somewhere between 5 and 12% of that $9981 for allowing you to use their "model" to particpate in the NRAS, you're still well ahead.

The other fees associated with owning an investment property shouldn't really change much. Insurances, rates, water etc arent affected by NRAS. Property management fees may or may not be marginally dearer for NRAS than non NRAS, depending on state and NRAS model, but the PM does have to do a little extra work for NRAS because of the annual validation checks, income screening etc... generally the NEJV models allow you to select your own PM and negotiate the fee though.

All of this is precisely why Ive always said- do a cash flow analysis that accounts for all these variables, before selecting a property. Because ultimately, all NRAS will be CF+ after the first year, and it's only a matter of by how much. The less expensive properties obviously generate better yield than the more expensive ones, even if they sit under the more expensive NRAS models.

This is a cash flow play that costs you nothing to hold, but still allows you to take out all the usual taxation benefits associated with a new property ( more actually) but most importantly, generates guaranteed wealth by helping you to aggressively pay down non deductible debt using the surplus income...

A 10% deposit -35K lets say, on a 350K property, generates 6-7K tax free return. That's a 20% return tax free , with no out of pocket costs incurred. That return, reinvested onto your non deductible debt , is further compounded by the interest you save. And then, that is further compounded because the debt you pay down creates equity, which re-leveraged creates further compound benefit. Eyes on the prize :)

worrying over 5% v 12% of the $9981 is kinda missing the bigger picture :)
 
euro73, I fully appreciate your view of it and I do agree with you when all the pieces fall into place you come out ahead. Well done to those that have it sorted.

For us, though, it wasn't just the money. I had to spend a heap of time sorting through huge documents and playing phone tennis to try and get answers. Everyone's situation is different, but we felt that the stress it placed on us was truly getting too much.

There was a big risk that by using our chosen property manager (the onsite manager) we would run into problems in the future. If a document is missing or a check missed etc. then the property is no longer NRAS complient and the gov. says 'tough, no cigar'. Potentially meaning that for the past 6 to 12 mths you may have been getting the lesser rent, paying more fees for nought!
Obviously, that's worse case scenario, but we (and our manager) could see it happening to us, simply because of the people we were dealing with.

I'm not saying they would have deliberately stuffed things up for us but the consortium certainly weren't making things easy. Hence our concern of "Oh sorry you failed to lodge doc X so the gov is not going to give you the NRAS $... should have let us manage the property for you..." come tax time.

Sorry for the waffle, but I think everyone has to look at things from every angle. Yes NRAS is great if it's purely about the numbers, but there are human's behind the numbers (and the gov!) that can stuff up.
 
ok. but remember the consortium relies on the NRAS incentives being paid, to get it's compliance fee income.... it's very much in their interest to ensure the compliance occurs - it is literally their sole source of income, which provides pretty powerful motivation for any business or individual.

Anyhow- it's all about diversity of view. Otherwise we should move to North Korea :)
I'm not here to say that the only good investment property play is an NRAS play- I'm just here to make sure the facts are clarified for everyone to make informed decisions.... and there is essentially no investment that is absolutely risk free whether it involves property or equities or bonds or just about anything else, so discussing the possible scenarios that can play out is worthwhile.

What if my non NRAS cant find a tenant?
What if my NRAS isnt compliant?
What if my tenant in either property burns the place down?
What if Abbott gets in and puts and end to CGT exemptions or discounts?
What if the Greens get in and remove neg gearing?
What if NRAS gets extended to another 50,000 dwellings?
What if property prices fall 20%?

All of these things "could" happen, but......
 
Just wanted to say a HUGE thanks for all the info. We found an almost complete unit in Armadale that came back on the market. We should be getting a net $7500 pa this year (around 7% if I did the sums right). Hoping to settle by Sept 1st in time for pre-approved NRAS tenant moving in on the 7th.

Carolyn
 
If anyone has interest, there's a new stage of a development launching soon in Nundah, QLD that's bout 50% NRAS. It's right near the train station, commerial and retail and the brand new airport tunnel makes it less than a 10 min drive to the CBD.

http://www.circanundah.com.au/

I have nothing to do with the developer or CBRE, just thought I'd share.
 
Hmmm... lets see how ugly the vals are :) Maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised, but.....

That's unfortunately the single biggest problem Brisbane and SE Qld has at the moment - vals. It's affecting new stock , and therefore NRAS, particularly harshly, but it's really hitting everywhere and everyone. New stock. Established stock. I see it day after day, week after week, and it's showing no sign of changing. I could tell you about literally hundreds of deals on Brisbane apartments and SEQld townhouses and houses where it's basically impossible to find val's within 7-8% of the asking price. That means 30-40K shortfalls are almost par for the course on any of those types of purchases in any of those areas- and those are the good ones! The bad vals- well, double or triple that figure and you'll start to see it.

I know of developments sold OTP 18-24 months ago in Bowen Hills, Fortitude Valley, Underwood, Maroochydoore, the list goes on... settling now and coming in 10,12, 15% under. People need to come to the realisation that the market as it is right now, is the new normal for the medium term. This is why I looooove hearing the endless optimism of the capital growth spruikers. They continue to ignore every single fundamental fact of todays market , every thing valuers and banks are saying , and just pump out the same old supply v demand story from yesteryear's market, hoping the same formula that worked in yesteryear will produce the same results today, while in every instance, they completely ignore the fact that the availability of credit has changed dramatically, if not forever then certainly for a generation. How's that cap growth strategy working out for the thousands of buyers who bought from them in the last couple of years, me wonders? ....hmmm. Underwater much?

Anyway- as Ive said a thousand times- Stay away from Qld at the moment unless you are prepared to cover the inevitable valuation shortfalls. Yes there are some exceptions scattered here and there but by and large it's a train wreck best avoided for the next 12 months at least, and besides- there's only so much information I can give you free of charge lol :) Here's the best freebie I can offer you- the best valuations for NRAS deals right now are the completed ones in Melbourne, Bendigo and Geelong and Ballarat, or the rare gem like Carol picked up in Perth, which I assume came back onto the market at some form of discount because someone couldn't settle ... val issue perhaps? All the other options available today are dangerous or dumb at the moment - Off The Plan is just too risky in this market- paying a 10% deposit for todays price and hoping it values up in 2 years is just too dangerous. Just take a look at Brisbane or the Gold Coast right now! It should help you see the risk pretty clearly. That leaves House and Land in Qld, VIC and SA at the moment, and a scattering of crazy nutty quadplex and qunitplex stuff in WA. I mean really- the numbers might add up on paper but how many lenders will take those as security? lets get serious, please. SA House and Land is OK, it's generally only 15- 20K off ( not tooooo bad I guess) but there are only 150 NRAS houses left in SA. Qld- thousands available but you know the story there all too well. Nothing much around in NSW basically. Australand do have about 61, 2 bedroom townhouses coming at "the ponds" in about 12 months for around 400K which look quite inviting, but they havent even sorted out the consortium side of things yet - hopeless! Vic is where it's at for this year. WA will have some good stuff in about 12-18 months, and all the unsold stock from the current Qld disaster stories will come back on in about a year, discounted by 15 or 20%- they'll be good buying then.

Free insights over :)
 
I have looked at NRAS properties and am still undecided whether to buy or not.


I received an email promoting NRAS for 250k in Deception Bay. Not knowing where that was I googled it. I came across another company selling the same units but at 240k...
but if you wanted the unit to be NRAS the price was 250k.

Can anyone shed some light on this?
 
Just wanted to say a HUGE thanks for all the info. We found an almost complete unit in Armadale that came back on the market. We should be getting a net $7500 pa this year (around 7% if I did the sums right). Hoping to settle by Sept 1st in time for pre-approved NRAS tenant moving in on the 7th.

Carolyn

That's great - glad you got what you wanted, where you wanted.
 
I have looked at NRAS properties and am still undecided whether to buy or not.


I received an email promoting NRAS for 250k in Deception Bay. Not knowing where that was I googled it. I came across another company selling the same units but at 240k...
but if you wanted the unit to be NRAS the price was 250k.

Can anyone shed some light on this?


when you say the same units- do you mean exactly the same unit? or just a similar unit in the same development? Because its not uncommon for developers to charge slightly different amounts for different units within a development, depending on floor size, view, etc...

If it's for EXACTLY the same unit though... that's something I'd be asking the emailer about.- or Brisbane Housing Company.
 
I Just cut and paste this from the ad.


New 2 Bedroom Apartments With Water Views Now Selling. A GREAT INVESTMENT. WITH CLOTHES WASHER AND DRYER.and DISH WASHER.LARGE STORAGE AREA AND HIGH CARPORT BE QUICK NOW NRAS APPROVED WILL RETURN APPROX $430.00 PER WEEK. BE QUICK FOR THIS .$440.00 RETURN PER WEEK

IDEAL SUPERANNUATION FUND INVESTMENT.
CAN BE BOUGHT WITHOUT NRAS FOR $240000.00
 
well thats bollocks. No one has the right to charge extra for NRAS. NRAS isnt an extra bedroom or an extra 10m2 of living space. It's simply a tax entitlement. That developer is a jerk off.
 
Update

Popping back in to give an update.

Just over a year since our tenant (my sister) moved in. Everything is going fine, no different to a regular rental property in how its running. We just did the first market rental review and raised rent 7%. The first year gov payments were slower than expected but not a problem as they were not for cash flow.

I would not pick Armadale again, it's a good location for my sister but with so many units in the area I doubt we'll see any capital growth for a while. Managing agent also predicted less rental growth for next review.

However, looking for number 2 now, its easy to get into and pretty hassle free after you get over the learning curve.

Just heard about a scheme for aged and disabled which will allow NRAS on a granny flat (WA only I think), looking onto that now.

Caz
 
Glad to hear it's been a good experience for you, and a 7% increase to your rent isn't exactly inflation limited , as many of the naysayers like to go on about.

It's also nice to know your purchase didn't disintegrate instantly into a ghetto, full of junkies, pensioners, pokie addicts etc , simply because it is eligible for the NRAS :)
 
I got clients with NRAS property in Perth and haven't had any complaints.

Granny flt with NRAS sounds interesting. Would like to know who is behind it?
 
well thats bollocks. No one has the right to charge extra for NRAS. NRAS isnt an extra bedroom or an extra 10m2 of living space. It's simply a tax entitlement. That developer is a jerk off.

Something to be careful of then?

Many may see NRAS as having some kind of approval and safety
 
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