Outrageous tribunal cases.

Being in the property management business, I obviously network alot with other pm's and hear lots of different stories. Here are 2 recent tenancy tribunal cases which I thought could have been ruled with a little more logic on the part of the tribunal. Both in SA:

Case 1.
Tenants want to vacate and pm issues them with a $100 cleaning bill because the house was not left up to scratch.

Tenant's then take the pm and landlord to the tribunal to ask for money back from the landlord for something that happened 12 months earlier!.

They claimed that they had asked for an automatic rollerdoor to be repaired and the landlord took 3 months to do it. This part was true!

In those 3 months, the tenants had washed 2 US basketball tops valued at $700 and put them up on the clothes line. They were stollen and claimed that the thieves got in throught the garage rollardoor which should have been repaird by the landlord.

The facts:
The event happened 12 months earlier and the tribunal case was the first time both the landlord and pm were made aware of it.
There was no police record of recording a buglary
There was no reciept for the $700 T-Shirts nor was there any other proof of ownership.
Although the landlord took 3 months to repair the automatic sensors, the garage rollerdoor could have been locked manually from the inside!

The verdict: The landlord was ordered to pay for a replacement of the basketball tops becuase the repair requested by the tenants was not done in a timely manner :eek:

Case 2:
Tenant was taken to the tribunal by the pm for being in rent arrears for a month.
The judge asked what was the weekly rent?
pm said $400 per week

Facts:
The judge did not ask where the house was or what the market rent was
He did not ask what the tenants salary was

Verdict:
The judge actually stated "how do you expect someone to afford $400 per week, I certainly can't on my salary" That is way too much.
The tenant was allowed to leave and pay $20 per fortnight to catch up the rent arrears!!!

To me these 2 cases proove that the tenancy tribunal is pro-tenant and against "rich landlords taking advantage of poor battlers"

Absolutely ridicilous, just had to share these!
 
Cases like that are a real worry and defy logic.
I only have one IP in SA with others in Qld. I hope I don't have similar issues in SA that's for sure!

I wonder what the tribunal is like in Qld?

Any horror stories of unfair outcomes from other states?
Regards,
Chris.
 
Thanks for highlighting those cases Xenia.

What's not highlighted is the level of frustration and destroyed SANF before, during and after for the Owner and their spouse....just trying to go about their business of making some gains and rent.

These things always seem to be left on the wayside when the tribunals sit down and concentrate on how the tenant's lifestyle have been interrupted, and how can we, as a community can best accomodate their obvious domestic difficulties without causing them any more undue hardship.

HELLO !!

What about the poor schmuck who's hitched his grand and noble wealth creation ideals to these people who couldn't give a rat's, and don't have a financial acumen bone in their bodies. Wouldn't know the meaning of commitment or follow through, and have never honoured or been exposed to the exact wording in a legally binding Contract in their life.

Very judgemental, and totally uncalled for stereotypical general biased comments....but, these issues just forever keep coming up. There is a never ending stream on this forum and others about how the tenants have done something wrong / not paid / not done / lied / wormed out / left without notice or a forwarding address / won't sign the bond release form / it goes on and on and on.

What I don't understand is, why do investors keep on doing business with these folks, a business that is central to their future retirement needs. IMO, you are not providing housing for these people, you are in business with them. Other people obviously see it differently to what we do.

The wife and I refuse to do business with people like this anymore. They aren't serious, and do not take their business commitments seriously enough....plus we have no desire to ever again link our wealth building activities with other people's private lives, we've had to swim through that muck and it's not pleasant and not profitable.....cos inevitably when the brown hits the fan - to protect your asset and interests, you are forced to wade through the wreckage of their private lives....and she's a slippery slope and there ain't no $$ in any of it when it gets to that stage. Just lots of anguish, lots of broken promises and lots of heartache and plenty of cleaning up.

Choosing your business partner wisely in this little investing game we play cannot be understated.
 
I'm simply amazed by these decisions. What qualifications does one need to be on a tribunal? A dodgem-car license?:rolleyes:

And what person in their right mind would buy a $700 t-shirt? And not have it insured if its that special?
 
Thanks for highlighting those cases Xenia.

What's not highlighted is the level of frustration and destroyed SANF before, during and after for the Owner and their spouse....just trying to go about their business of making some gains and rent.

These things always seem to be left on the wayside when the tribunals sit down and concentrate on how the tenant's lifestyle have been interrupted, and how can we, as a community can best accomodate their obvious domestic difficulties without causing them any more undue hardship.

HELLO !!

What about the poor schmuck who's hitched his grand and noble wealth creation ideals to these people who couldn't give a rat's, and don't have a financial acumen bone in their bodies. Wouldn't know the meaning of commitment or follow through, and have never honoured or been exposed to the exact wording in a legally binding Contract in their life.

Very judgemental, and totally uncalled for stereotypical general biased comments....but, these issues just forever keep coming up. There is a never ending stream on this forum and others about how the tenants have done something wrong / not paid / not done / lied / wormed out / left without notice or a forwarding address / won't sign the bond release form / it goes on and on and on.

What I don't understand is, why do investors keep on doing business with these folks, a business that is central to their future retirement needs. IMO, you are not providing housing for these people, you are in business with them. Other people obviously see it differently to what we do.

The wife and I refuse to do business with people like this anymore. They aren't serious, and do not take their business commitments seriously enough....plus we have no desire to ever again link our wealth building activities with other people's private lives, we've had to swim through that muck and it's not pleasant and not profitable.....cos inevitably when the brown hits the fan - to protect your asset and interests, you are forced to wade through the wreckage of their private lives....and she's a slippery slope and there ain't no $$ in any of it when it gets to that stage. Just lots of anguish, lots of broken promises and lots of heartache and plenty of cleaning up.

Choosing your business partner wisely in this little investing game we play cannot be understated.

OK Dazz, well done for giving resi a miss but geez get off the soap box. Some of us haven't reached your higher state yet:rolleyes:

I love your posts on commercial/industrial but no need to be a -- about other investing!!
 
Well they can be taken to a higher court and if I was the pm for these landlords, I certainly would be doing that out of principle!

A judge with an entitlement mentality is just not acceptable!

By the way, it was the same guy that made the same 2 descisions, there were different pm's invloved.
 
In NSW at least, there is the right of appeal to the Dept of Fair Trading, go request another hearing if you think justice was not served.
I've seen a landlord advise a member in a Tribunal, after hearing a poor decision, of their intention to dispute the Member's decision and the landlord asked the Member to arrange another hearing with a different Member. It used to be then referred to a closed session of 3 members for their judgement.
crest133
 
OK Dazz, well done for giving resi a miss but geez get off the soap box. Some of us haven't reached your higher state yet:rolleyes:

I love your posts on commercial/industrial but no need to be a -- about other investing!!

I didn't interpret Dazzling's reply like this at all. I think Dazz was just saying that in order to be successful you have to treat what you do as a business, and treat it seriously. I think what Dazzling meant - or the way I read it anyway was that if you keep experiencing difficult situations with tenants, then perhaps you need to assess whether the asset you are holding is going to help you achieve your financial goals, or hinder them.

I am currently in a difficult situation with a tenant in one of my IP's, and I think Dazzling makes a very valid point. If its not working, simply reassess your investment in this particular area. I know thats what I am doing - although I am also being realistic and will keep the IP and try another tenant. If things go wrong again, then thats definetely a sign that this is the wrong asset for my future wealth creation plans.

I find Dazzling inspiring - I want to be in such a position one day and would love to learn as much from Dazzling as possible.

Anyway - thats just the way I read it.

Regards Jason.
 
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