Periodic tenancy

I have been advised by my RE agent that my tenants have not renewed the tenancy. They have tried to contact them but are unsuccessful. The lease will become a periodic tenancy. I don't like the uncertainty. I'm guessing the tenants are not thinking long term and don't want to sign? I'm might call the agent and tell them to find new tenants.
Would this be the right approach? what would you do?
Looking for advice.
 
Ask some serious questions about the competency of my property management agency.

So you are assuming that or know it for fact?

Turns out the manager has sent notices and the tenant seems to be ignoring them.

Wouldnt be the tenants fault now would it?

If it were my IP and wanted surety for a term then I would force the issue by giving notice to vacate. They can always come to the party and sign up again before the existing lease expires.
 
So you are assuming that or know it for fact?

Turns out the manager has sent notices and the tenant seems to be ignoring them.

Wouldnt be the tenants fault now would it?

If it were my IP and wanted surety for a term then I would force the issue by giving notice to vacate. They can always come to the party and sign up again before the existing lease expires.

If it were me, I would expect my PM to give me that very advice. And/or actually go to the property for a quick drive-by or door knock to see if everything was okay and if anyone was home.

Instead it sounds like they have just left the OP hanging.

And I certainly wouldn't make any long term leasing decisions without a better attempt to contact the tenants than that.
 
Your Agent should not have let the tenancy roll onto a periodic lease. The leases should be done 3 months in advance to ensure that if the tenant does not decide to renew their lease, the agent can provide them with 2 months notice as per legislative requirements. Letting a tenancy roll onto a periodic lease means one thing, the Agent is behind with their work - a lease should never be allowed to roll onto a periodic without the Owner's consent. If the tenant does not sign their lease or is non contactable after several attempts both calls and emails a Notice to Leave should then be issued, unless of course the Owner is happy with a periodic lease. With a periodic lease the tenant has all the power! They only have to give 2 weeks notice to vacate.
 
The lease will become a periodic tenancy. I don't like the uncertainty.

The other issue that you want to be careful of is that some landlord insurance policies will not cover you if the tenant is on a periodic tenancy, so I would be checking that quite quickly.
 
The other issue that you want to be careful of is that some landlord insurance policies will not cover you if the tenant is on a periodic tenancy, so I would be checking that quite quickly.

We ensure we get new leases signed due to this issue. I do know that some (most?) agencies issue Notice to Leave along with the new lease so that if the new lease is not signed, the Notice to Leave is acted upon.

We don't do this as private landlords but would certainly do it if we had any concerns about a tenant, or if we needed to know for sure they are leaving (if we wanted to book tradies for work to be done).
 
It also depends on the state the property is located in.

In Vic you cannot force a fixed term tenancy on a tenant and you can not issue a notice to vacate if they choose not to sign.

Also, the notice period for no reason NTV is 120 days (4 months) here and the tenant needs to supply 28 days notice to vacate on a periodic tenancy. However in some instances a tenant can give 14 days reciprocal notice once a NTV has been served. Plus a NTV can be argued at VCAT by the tenants if they feel it is unfair and it may be revoked.
 
Thanks for clarifying Joker, your PM is doing the right thing.
Tenant is clearly playing games.

If it were me, my sentiments above still stand.

You have to be firm and stick to your convictions as stated you dont like uncertainty.

Just what I would do anyway.;)
 
I am a bit surprised by the responses to the initial post, in that they make assumptions of what the PM may or may not have made. From my reading the OP was just asking for advice on whether he should insist on a new fixed term, or allow the current lease it to go periodic. I would appreciate seeing a copy of a landlord insurance policy, that "will not cover you" if there is no current fixed term. Remember, if they started with a lease, then there is always one in place, just the fixed term has passed. Does the "power" move to the tenant with no fixed term, well yes some may think so, however when it is explained to a tenant that should the landlords thinking change, they can issue a notice to leave, so there is more than sufficient benefit for a tenant to execute a fixed term. With the current level of redundancies happening in Qld, we are very conscious that some tenants are concerned about ongoing employment. Even non-government ones, where the business they work with has high level of government business, people are "thinking" about making long term commitments. One of our most reviewed reports is the tenancy expiry report. We have one I think, that expired 12 years ago, and the tenant was not happy about making another commitment, the landlord was “non plussed”, and they are still there. Now that will not be the thinking of every landlord. You need to be well aware of your risk profile, in terms of cashflow needs etc, and you PM needs to know that, so they can do everything they can to get expiries to coincide with peek letting periods, and the be forceful to insist on renewed fixed terms. You do however need to be informed however, that if your property is in an area that at different times experiences say a softness in letting, then these terms may be seen harsh by a prospective tenant and your vacancy between tenants blows out. At the end of the day, you choose this PM, unless you have evidence and/or are certain that your early decision was not the best you could have made, continue taking their advice, and take advice from forum members when you are asked to make a decision, and you would like more information on the options. Also, Lil S was correct, posters need to remember that the rules vary state to state, so giving you advice as applies to a different state, could actually send you down the wrong path. Stick with property investing, you may … no will …. have lumps and bumps but long term benefits will put a smile on your face.
 
Yep, agree with above poster. The comments about no lease being in place, causing insurance problems etc do not make sense. Moving onto a periodic tenancy is a continuation of the original lease - you'll actually find this stated in the lease itself (has been in my standard qld ones anyway).

I've recently moved our of a rental that we were in for 4 years (only moved out due to it selling and new owners moving in). After the second 6 month fixed term I wanted flexibility and went periodic. The owners initially insisted, but came around, we ended up staying there for 3 more years. I just prefer to rent a place on a periodic basis.
 
I asked specifically one year whether the signed lease was considered a lease once it rolled into a periodic lease. The insurance staffer told me the lease must have a start and finish date. I cannot recall which company it was but since then I have ensured we have current leases. It would be interesting to know whether this truly is the case but having a current lease is not a bad thing to ensure the tenants leave at a time that suits us instead of getting an unexpected call saying they will be leaving in two weeks... though in the past it never bothered us much to roll them onto a month to month lease when we didn't have landlord insurance.
 
I would appreciate seeing a copy of a landlord insurance policy, that "will not cover you" if there is no current fixed term. Remember, if they started with a lease, then there is always one in place, just the fixed term has passed.

Hi Peter

This is an issue that has been raised previously on this forum, one landlord specifically named GIO as not covering once the tenant went to periodic/lease continuation, and this was the reason they changed cover. We've heard of it quite a bit from property managers, particularly in NSW it has been quite an issue.

Many policies are simply ambiguous in the way their policy is worded, so it raises question marks that you may not be sure of the answer to until a claim is made. Certainly worth an enquiry and get it in writing if concerned.

It's also likely to be the case in many instances that cover may simply be limited in the case of periodic tenancies, rather than negated altogether.

The GIO policy seems to be more specific and states the following:

This cover insures default of rent occurring in the fixed term of a rental
agreement. There is NO cover for default of rent that occurs:
›› outside the fixed term of a rental agreement or
›› if you didn’t have a signed rental agreement in place.
Pg. 22.


Naturally, you should make your own decisions based on the wordings with whatever company you are interested in using, and ask specific questions if you are not sure about what is covered.
 
Many policies are simply ambiguous in the way their policy is worded, so it raises question marks that you may not be sure of the answer to until a claim is made. Certainly worth an enquiry and get it in writing if concerned.

As was my previous policy, it's not fun trying to take on an insurance company when it comes to making a claim. I have since eliminated the ambiguity by going with a policy which clearly says they cover periodic leases - Terry Scheer.

https://terrischeer.com.au/frequently-asked-questions

Their definition of a lease is:

"The contract in place between landlord and
tenant to rent the residential premises in
accordance with the act in your state or territory.
This can be either, fixed term, periodical or a
continuation of the Lease."
 
As was my previous policy, it's not fun trying to take on an insurance company when it comes to making a claim. I have since eliminated the ambiguity by going with a policy which clearly says they cover periodic leases - Terry Scheer.

https://terrischeer.com.au/frequently-asked-questions

Their definition of a lease is:

"The contract in place between landlord and
tenant to rent the residential premises in
accordance with the act in your state or territory.
This can be either, fixed term, periodical or a
continuation of the Lease."

Yes it's not hard to clearly define it, but I think you will generally find that the ones that do are more likely to be those that understand the property management industry and have specialist policies, more so than the major insurers. We do a silmilar thing by defining a lease as:

A written agreement between you and a tenant for occupancy of the premises which is;

  • allowed by and compliant with legislative requirements in the State or Territory the premises are located in and for which a bond equivalent to at least four weeks rent has been paid.
  • It also includes a tenancy at will which immediately follows the lease.
 
It also depends on the state the property is located in.

In Vic you cannot force a fixed term tenancy on a tenant and you can not issue a notice to vacate if they choose not to sign.

Also, the notice period for no reason NTV is 120 days (4 months) here and the tenant needs to supply 28 days notice to vacate on a periodic tenancy. However in some instances a tenant can give 14 days reciprocal notice once a NTV has been served. Plus a NTV can be argued at VCAT by the tenants if they feel it is unfair and it may be revoked.

The lease for one of my properties is up for renewal in Feb. PM recently sent me the paperwork asking if I wanted to renew etc. There was a line in the letter that said:

"It is important that you understand that while a renewal can be offered to a tenant they are not obliged to accept the offer and can remain on a periodic tenancy."

To me these sound like standard words to cover the PM, however makes me also wonder how hard they try to get a lease in place. The PM has only recently taken over the property after the last agency sold their rent roll.

These particular tenants have been PITAs, however they pay their rent on time and look after the property. I'm expecting they would want a periodic tenancy if they know they can.

I'm happy to renew the lease, but I do not want a periodic tenancy.

I know in Canberra that tenants can give 3 weeks notice on a periodic tenancy whereas the landlord has to give 26 weeks notice to vacate.

Any advice?
 
Back
Top