Planning application for 6-storey apartment block development for PPOR + 2 properties

[Beanie Girl]

Wow! Way to handle constructive criticism

I wouldn't call sanj arrogant nor is he trying to "get" your business. He's a developer himself.

I agree with sanj, those estimates mean nothing other than a very very rough ballpark figure.

Oscar, you came very highly recommended from the forum, I spoke to you briefly over the phone....

 

[Tano]

How do you work out the annual demand and capture rates to determine if you green light the project? Is it just the total sales for the suburb in the past 12 months for that dwelling type (apartment) and this can be derived from a REIWA or RPData professional account?

There seems to be only 62 apartments sold in past 12 months (70% are small 1970's in large complex's) and there is a new development of 336 new apartments planned for 2 stages starting Mid 2014 just 350m away . My dad is also considering developing and has concept drawings for 34 apartments at an approx cost of $12mil but what type of person would we employ to figure out if we should go ahead with the project, and if so, what is the best configuration (2bed vs 1 bed) and level of finish as to not directly complete with the new supply?

 

[Beanie Girl]

Hi everybody, I just thought I'd update the thread with the quote I received to do a planning application for a 4-6 storey apartment development. Here is the quote, figures and details. Thoughts if this is a reasonable quote with the requisite steps? Any steps missed out? Thanks!

"The following fee proposal is based on discussions from our last meeting. This comprises generally of the following:

 PRE DESIGN, SCHEMATIC DESIGN, DESIGN DEVELOPMENT

 Exploration of the highest and best use for this development

 Design of a 4 to 6 storey residential development

 Combined car parking area.

STAGE 1 - MEASURE AND DESIGN

PRE DESIGN - $1800

Arrange and conduct 1 client meeting to discuss design brief and other project requirements including discussing the following items at the same meeting:

Inspect site and assess site conditions, constraints and opportunities
Preliminary assessment of regulations and authority requirements

SCHEMATIC DESIGN - (Senior Architect, Graduate Architect, 3-dimensional drawings) - $12,600

Prepare sketch drawings
Co-ordinate preliminary input from required consultants
Development of schematic plans
Changes to sketch design as per client requirements
Arrange and conduct up to 2 client meetings

STAGE 2 - DETAIL DESIGN AND TOWN PLANNING

DETAILED DESIGN - (Option 1 - 4 storey, Option 2 - 5-6 storey) - $18,000

Arrange and conduct meetings as required with client / consultant
Preparation of site analysis, streetscape and shadow diagrams
Prepare town planning drawings and coordinate application
Coordination with Planning Consultant in preparing written report discussing the design
intent and justification of the project
Changes to drawings as per planning consultant requirements

Prepare 3 dimensional drawings for client review and council submission
Response to Council request for further information


Please note that the below have not been quoted upon, as it is dependent on the planning process and are subject to a number of factors beyond our control. Such as; neighbour objections, Council revising their decision etc.

Discuss and obtain client approval re council conditions and any notice of decision
Develop the approved design (Town Planning approved) Amend drawings to satisfy condition
1 requirements and resubmit to council
Changes to Town Planning drawings as per client requirements

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Beanie

It's been nice getting to know you so far.

As discussed today please find attached our fee proposal for your review and approval.

Further to our fee proposal the other consultants could be as follows:

- Town planner approx. $7,000-$12,000

- Land surveyor approx. $3,000-$5,000

- Landscape architect approx. $5,000

- Energy rater approx. $4,000-$8,000

- Waste management consultant approx. $2,000

- Traffic engineer ?


We would seek quotes from consultants we have used before to determine the best value.

If you require any assistance please do not hesitate to call.

 

[Michael_X]

Thanks for sharing Beanie Girl.

I haven't done a development myself but very much interested to hear what others have to say

 

[GreenMedallion]

The architectural breakdown seem quite cheap at only 32K. Be aware that you will have to pay more (at least that again) for construction drawings if the DA is approved.

Planning fees seem reasonable. Surveying fees are reasonable also for a detail survey of the site, especially if you want the job done at short notice so the DA can be submitted before your deadline.

You won't have much change from 5k for the Traffic Impact Assessment (or the equivalent of whatever it is called in Vic) that will be required in support of the DA.

No mention of structural engineers fees either? Getting a structural engineer involved at the DA stage may save a lot of money down the track. Likewise for a civil engineer.

I would be telling the architect that you don't wish to use a landscape architect, especially not for DA purposes. If the architect isn't capable of (quickly and cheaply) putting together the landscape requirements [trivial really] as part of their DA design then find a better architect.

Depending on the site a heritage consultant or ecological consultant may also be required.

There really isn't much time to put together the work from multiple consultants so you will be paying a premium from whatever consultants are willing to take on the work with such a short deadline.

 

[Beanie Girl]

Many, many thanks, GreenMedallion, for your input and taking the time to look the quote over. Very much appreciated

I will definitely talk to my architect about the possibility of involving a civil and structure engineer in the DA process before submission.

Good to know that I picked an architect/project manager whose fees are reasonable. Thanks for confirming my suspicion that spending 5k on a landscape architect is not so crucial atm.
When the 4-storey development was submitted to the Council planning dept for approval recommendation, the developer's proposal had no reports for waste management, esd (energy/sustainability design) and no landscape architect's report yet the Council planning planning department strongly recommended granting a planning permit

No heritage, ecological or acid soil sulphate overlay on the site. No special vegetation, powerline or bushfire overlay either. Just the usual MSS Neighbourhood character.

Thanks once again for your valuable input

 

[SOP]

Did you get the application in on time?

 

[Beanie Girl]

Yes, I did. Thank you for asking. I'm surprised anyone remembered!
I've been trying to lie low.
Submitted the planning application in the last week of June before the 1st July deadline.
I've applied for a 4-storey building with 30 over apartments comprising 1 and 2 bedrooms, but pre-dominantly 2 bedrooms.
The land survey costs were below 4k and took 2 full days.

I'm reasonably happy with the sizes of the apartments. All 1 bedders are above 50m in size excluding POS or balconies. Squeezed more space from reduction in corridors and reduction in setbacks
Some of the 2 bedders on the ground floor have POS and gardens as large or larger than the apartment itself.

All 1 bedders have light streaming from the balcony or POS through glass sliding doors. 1 or 2 bedrooms in the whole development have borrowed light via light tube. So no lightless bedrooms - the architect's been fairly clever in the design.

Tried to swing all south-facing balconies to the east or if it's south-facing, let them be uncovered balconies.

My eyes have just about glazed over from staring at the plans and 30 plus apartments.

 

[Beanie Girl]

Hi there, just got my first request from Council for information.

But they've requested that I address 4 pages worth of requirements as well as the following reports, otherwise
my application will lapse mid-Sept and a new application has to be lodged with prescribed information and another application fee
Anyone else had this experience? I have no problems commissioning these reports, but is the short timeline (less than 2 months) a common thing?

Reports requested:

Planning report
traffic report - by qualified traffic engineer
landscape plan
waste management plan
environment sustainable design mgt Plan- by suitably qualified environmental engineer or equivalent

Overlooking diagrams which detail the extent of overlooking within a 9 metre arc from all habitable room windows and balconies.

 

[oc1]

Standard, considering the application would have been a little rushed due to the deadline.

Your consultant should have all the required professionals to produce those reports. By the way, getting an extension closer to the deadline is generally not an issue

 

[Beanie Girl]

Standard, considering the application would have been a little rushed due to the deadline.

Your consultant should have all the required professionals to produce those reports. By the way, getting an extension closer to the deadline is generally not an issue

Whew! Thanks, oc1. Good to know that it's just a standard procedure
Nonetheless, I'll take the mid-Sept deadline seriously because we could possibly be in uncharted territory. I don't want to make another application again or planning amendment post 1st July, to be safe.....

 

[Beanie Girl]

Ugh! Besides 'request for additional infomation', Just read this para under 'preliminary concerns':

'This is the only opportunity to address these Design Layout Issues and Suggestions. If the above issues are not addressed the proposal is likely to be refused. It is advisable for you to address these issues at this stage of the application process and I would be happy to meet with you as soon as possible to discuss how you can amend your proposal improve the possibility of gaining officer support. If you do not wish to alter the design then please advise me. The processing of the application will recommence once the information request is received."

Deadline of mid-Sept looks non-negotiable
Hobson's choice: They are insisting on us submitting 'planning amendment', or else....
Submitting a 'planning amendment' opens a can of worms because of unfavourable consequences of date change

Wondering if I have to engage a planning lawyer now....Sigh

 

[chindonly]

As OC1 said, the "Information Request" back from Council is pretty standard.
We normally get about 6 months to address issues up here though.

Not going back and reading the whole thread, did you have a pre-lodgement meeting with council?

Normally that allows them to raise any broad design or development issues in advance, and lets you refine the project before spending too much money.

It sounds like this may not have happened, and they have some concerns over the development?

 

[Beanie Girl]

The common theme running through majority of the concerns seems to be height - 4 stories - referred to directly and obliquely in 'neighbourhood character', 'bulk', 'overshadowing' and 'streetscape character'.

But we have done a lot to be responsive and ameliorate potential impacts by appropriate setbacks to all floors, decreasing visual bulk such that it's just a knob at the 4th floor, as seen from the street. Wherever we could, there is garden space/terraces or bigger than normal balconies. There are also unblocked views from every aspect - north, south, east and west. Limited the number of south facing apartments but they are compensated by city views and uncovered balconies. The west facing apartments will have views facing greenery and reserve.

The short timeline concerns me but I'll keep working for a win-win for all concerned - Council, architect, developer and future occupants.