Plumbing fittings quality

[Perp]

I'm picking out fittings for our new PPOR, and have found that there are some huge savings to be made on plumbing fittings, in particular.

For example, this floor-mounted spout with mixer-tap and hand shower is $2,099 from Reece (which I wouldn't dream of paying):

Yet I can buy this one from eBay - covered by the very stringent Australian Consumer Law - for just over 1/10th of that price, at $248, delivered:

I do know that having Australian Consumer Law rights is of little value if you can't find the seller to enforce them, but what I really want to ask - particularly of plumbers and those "in the know" - is: what aspects or features of the design affect quality? Is there likely a difference in the physical product, or are they likely similar / identical products that can be had much cheaper through one supply chain than another? What should I be looking for to know whether the cheaper product is likely to be of adequate quality?

I'm not too fussed about getting a tap for $20 instead of $50, but crikey, a difference of $1,850 is significant...

 

[wylie]

Why not ask your plumber his opinion? He would (I guess) see these and have installed them. I'm happy to ask our plumber when I see him next week. I won't call him because we joked this week about him having to field calls from all sorts of people in his "family" time

One thing I do recall hearing is that some plumbing fixtures from different countries are made for the water pressure (or quality standards, or something like that) of the countries where they are made, and that can be different to Australian conditions and pressures. I have no idea if this came from a plumber or could be a load of tripe, but I'm guessing a call to Reece or Tradelink might give you some anecdotal evidence of what issues they have heard of. Of course, you must take into account that they will be trying to sell you their product...

The comment about different water pressure in different countries, or different quality standards, came from someone (cannot recall who) when I was considering buying Ikea taps when we did our bathroom, but I'm guessing taps brought into the country via ebay or even Ikea would have to match the Australian standard or they wouldn't be allowed to be sold here?)

 

[Perp]

Why not ask your plumber his opinion?

The builder's passing the info I've emailed him onto the plumber, but 1) builder wasn't sure how much useful feedback he'd provide, and 2) thought there was no harm in seeking extra input.

With regard to Australian standards and compatibility, yes, any incompatibilities would be covered under Australian Consumer Law and a remedy would be available via those channels, so I'm not too concerned about that.

 

[INVSTOR]

That is a huge price difference. I do recall hubby saying you get what you pay for with plumbing products. He also mentioned prices have come down heaps though in recent years. I've seen some quality flickmixers that have porcelain in them and last a very lOng time. I guess everything dates eventually! We've just taken off some dated taps -20 yrs old and still working well for a cheap modern bunnings set. I'll ask hubby later what he thinks!

 

[tomlemke]

Uve just gotta make sure it has the watermark on it other the plumber ***** legally instal it Reece is usually overpriced you do pay for quality tho have a look at other bathroom places you should be able to find it for half the price

 

[Perp]

Reece is usually overpriced you do pay for quality tho have a look at other bathroom places you should be able to find it for half the price

OK, so why would I pay even $1,000 for it somewhere else, and what - apart from the price - guarantees me that it's 4 x as good as the $250 one?

 

[tj22]

the material will most likely be of a bad make and will not last, not only that i would be very careful and ask them if it is watermarked.

watermark is a W symbol on any plumbing fixtures to say it has passed australian standards. otherwise it could be unsafe to drink from etc. and AGA (Australian Gas Association) for gas products.

if it comes with a watermark then maybe give it a go. a lot of times you buy off line and it turns out to be crap / cheap material. try and get a warranty on it.

 

[Perp]

if it comes with a watermark then maybe give it a go. a lot of times you buy off line and it turns out to be crap / cheap material. try and get a warranty on it.

Since 2011, all purchases from Australian suppliers and distributors come with a statutory guarantee (i.e. obligatory warranties; "warranty" is used to refer to what a manufacturer or seller volunteers in addition to the minimum obligation) under Australian Consumer Law. For that reason I've targeted only Australian-based sellers; none of the items I'm considering are direct imports.

Under the ACL, all items under $40,000 sold for domestic use must meet the following:

Products must be of acceptable quality, that is:

• safe, lasting, with no faults
• look acceptable
• do all the things someone would normally expect them to do.

Source: http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/consumer-guarantees

In addition to those basic rights, the seller of the $248 combo is offering an 8-year manufacturers' warranty, and returns within 14 days of receipt if dissatisfied. Given that, seems to me it's at least worth buying, getting the plumber to have a look at it, and then I can return it if he's not happy it's acceptable. That seems worthwhile for the sake of saving $1,850. (Or actually, not having this kind of tap at all - there's no way I'd pay $2,100!)

They don't say whether it's watermarked, but I'm not seeing how it's not worth a gamble...

 

[tj22]

warranty sounds good then,

all said i still wouldn't purchase it my self if it didn't come with a watermark. just ask them it should do.

worst case scenario if it doesn't have a watermark the water could be collecting metal / plastic from the material and could cause the water to be poisonous. its up to you if you want to gamble your health. plumbing is a licensed trade for a reason.

 

[Perp]

all said i still wouldn't purchase it my self if it didn't come with a watermark. just ask them it should do.

I've asked. Yes, it should have it, as it's mandatory for all plumbing fittings sold in Australia.

 

[tj22]

it is mandatory but some people buy online from international suppliers and get stuck when they realise it isn't watermarked.

sounds like a good deal then perp, Is it for a new build? or reno?

 

[Scott No Mates]

The most important thing is that it carries the AS/NZS markings which cost $$$ for appropriate testing and approval. If it doesn't meet Australian Standards and carry the Watermark, then hooking it up to the water supply is a breach of the plumber's licence & liable to fines/loss of licence etc. IMHO not worth it.

Just like the cheap knock off ipod chargers which recently killed someone due to poor insulation.

I have previously bought light fixtures with tempered ground German glass etc for a commercial project at $1, 500 ea. After install the client comes back that cheap and nasty knock off retailer is selling the identical light for $100. The looks were the only similarity, just no quality about it.

 

[Perp]

sounds like a good deal then perp, Is it for a new build? or reno?

New build. Finally recovering from Jan 11 flood after nearly 3-year fight with insurer. (We won - eventually.) Demolition underway, rebuild starting this week.

The most important thing is that it carries the AS/NZS markings which cost $$$ for appropriate testing and approval.

I've had confirmation it meets Australian standards and is WELS and WaterMark compliant.

If it doesn't meet Australian Standards and carry the Watermark, then hooking it up to the water supply is a breach of the plumber's licence & liable to fines/loss of licence etc. IMHO not worth it.

I agree, and wouldn't do it under those circumstances, nor would my builder and plumber; that's not what I was wanting to do.

 

[Ausprop]

saw these in bunnings today, from memory they were about $200 too.

stuff is so dam cheap, having a few good hours to walk around bunnings is a real eye opener.

 

[AJB]

It is legal for suppliers to sell products without a watermark in australia, but illegal for plumbers to install any plumbing fixtures or fitting that do not have a watermark stamp.
The product must have the watermark on it (not just the supplier saying it complies). If these products fail and flood your house, your insurer can refuse your claim because of this.

 

[Doovalacky]

As you pointed out its only a fraction of the cost so even if it fails in half the time other product would have lasted you are still ahead.
I brought some cheap flickmasters style taps around 6 years ago that were a quarter of cost Reece had and they are still going fine.

 

[Perp]

Update: I paid a bit more - $375 - to get the pictured item from an Australian supplier, with a Watermark, and with protection of the Australian Consumer Law. What I bought was identical to the one I could've bought from China; I literally paid extra purely for the Watermark and ACL protections. (Which I'm happy to do.)

The plumber says that the quality of the fittings I've bought is excellent, and he will be recommending my supplier to other clients. Thumbs up, Gianni & Costa!

 

[wylie]

Hey Perp... what a small world. My bath is a Gianni & Costa, and when it got here, I noticed it has Gianni & Costa carved into the stone near the overflow, so they must have these made and imported. I love my bath...



I found it on ebay after a LOT of internet searching. I literally spent days on the computer looking at different baths, dimensions, weights. Gianni & Costa had the bath we ended up buying and I think from memory the delivery to Brisbane from Adelaide was still going to be reasonable enough to make it worthwhile. In the end they delivered it to me themselves. Lovely chaps to deal with.

If we go ahead with our townhouses I will look at buying everything "bathroom" from them and have it all delivered (depending on end cost and comparing with local goodies).

 

[PS10]

Thank you Perp & Wylie, I've been looking at their eBay store for a while now, and was wondering about the quality, I will definitely be taking a closer look.

I work a few km's away from their warehouse in Erskineville, so I will pop in at some point.

 

[Joostoz]

Based on your experiences I just bought a kitchen tap/mixer from them! $195, also for sale for $499 at a different shop... Looking forward to receiving it. Kitchen will go in in 2 weeks, so should arrive in time.