I reckon if you die at the PA, there would be no hope anywhere else either
lol point taken but u get my drift!
ill rephrase better next time...........
Private Health Insurance - save instead
- Thread starter DavidMc
- Start date
lol point taken but u get my drift!
ill rephrase better next time...........
I do get your drift csc. I think that like most things in life, it is really a value call for each of us. There is no right or wrong answer. If I knew we would never have to call on it, I wouldn't pay it.
I am just not game to give it up. The next day I'd probably need a hip replacement.
I am just not game to give it up. The next day I'd probably need a hip replacement
.Hey - first post!
I talk to heaps of people about insurance, and it's always a value thing. If you're 10ft tall and bullet proof, you don't do it because you can't see value in covering the risk - but insurance is always the "what if" factor.
I came off my horse in the middle of nowhere and spent the a day flat on my back, and it was nice to know that when the bills arrived, I just sent them off to my insurer and it was taken care of. Over the years, I've probably paid more than I've claimed, but I like the comfort. I would say on average, 80% of the people I talk to have it - and close to 100% if they earn more than $100k. Don't forget you get badly penalised if you earn too much and don't have it.
I talk to heaps of people about insurance, and it's always a value thing. If you're 10ft tall and bullet proof, you don't do it because you can't see value in covering the risk - but insurance is always the "what if" factor.
I came off my horse in the middle of nowhere and spent the a day flat on my back, and it was nice to know that when the bills arrived, I just sent them off to my insurer and it was taken care of. Over the years, I've probably paid more than I've claimed, but I like the comfort. I would say on average, 80% of the people I talk to have it - and close to 100% if they earn more than $100k. Don't forget you get badly penalised if you earn too much and don't have it.
Exactly!
It's a gamble.
And to determine if a gamble is worth it, you have to look at your 'odds' (i.e. obese vs fit, family history of problems, etc) and your 'potential winnings'.
Of course everyone has a friend of a friend who was a freak case.
That's what I'm trying to figure out here. The responses so far have been good, thanks everyone!
It's a gamble.
And to determine if a gamble is worth it, you have to look at your 'odds' (i.e. obese vs fit, family history of problems, etc) and your 'potential winnings'.
Of course everyone has a friend of a friend who was a freak case.
That's what I'm trying to figure out here. The responses so far have been good, thanks everyone!
Its not just health insurance......
After recently scrutinisng certain what if scenarios and how that would affect my ability to generate an income, what would happen to my assets and how do I pay for doctors/specialists/hospitals in certain scenarios, I decided to be pro-active on these issues. Better to deal with what happens in these situations now, rather than having the stress or indeed passing on that stress to family/friends at the time.
The real thoughts were around what if I was maimed, had a life threatening health issue or even worse, aside from looking after myself, who would not only manage my IP's but who would take on the financial burden. And given my IP loans & commitments are substantial (by non-SS standards), it would be prudent to ensure that I have mitigated the impact of these events if they were to occur.
I have since taken on Life, TPD, Trauma & Health insurance in the last 6 months but also finalsing as we speak a will and specific instructions (ie PM contact details, log-in's passwords for all my accounts, banks account details etc..). I am more than comfortable in now knowing that if these situations arise, not only are my immediate medical needs covered, financially I am not imposing on anyone else and in fact leaving a substantial legacy. (Worth more dead than alive)
As for the specific issue of health, there are a few family issues that we have, which whilst are probably not uncommon, and whilst I am fitter and have a healthier lifestyle than most of my family, sometimes your genes deal you a card that you may not be able to avoid.
My father had some serious heart surgery a few years ago, which he had to since go back again (angioplasty). Each surgery/treatment cost well in excess of $25k. The last thing you want in those scenarios is worrying where you are going to access many thousands of dollars.
Sounds pretty grim but none of us will live forever and I think is a prudent and responsible course of action for all serious investors.
After recently scrutinisng certain what if scenarios and how that would affect my ability to generate an income, what would happen to my assets and how do I pay for doctors/specialists/hospitals in certain scenarios, I decided to be pro-active on these issues. Better to deal with what happens in these situations now, rather than having the stress or indeed passing on that stress to family/friends at the time.
The real thoughts were around what if I was maimed, had a life threatening health issue or even worse, aside from looking after myself, who would not only manage my IP's but who would take on the financial burden. And given my IP loans & commitments are substantial (by non-SS standards), it would be prudent to ensure that I have mitigated the impact of these events if they were to occur.
I have since taken on Life, TPD, Trauma & Health insurance in the last 6 months but also finalsing as we speak a will and specific instructions (ie PM contact details, log-in's passwords for all my accounts, banks account details etc..). I am more than comfortable in now knowing that if these situations arise, not only are my immediate medical needs covered, financially I am not imposing on anyone else and in fact leaving a substantial legacy. (Worth more dead than alive
)As for the specific issue of health, there are a few family issues that we have, which whilst are probably not uncommon, and whilst I am fitter and have a healthier lifestyle than most of my family, sometimes your genes deal you a card that you may not be able to avoid.
My father had some serious heart surgery a few years ago, which he had to since go back again (angioplasty). Each surgery/treatment cost well in excess of $25k. The last thing you want in those scenarios is worrying where you are going to access many thousands of dollars.
Sounds pretty grim but none of us will live forever and I think is a prudent and responsible course of action for all serious investors.
As of next month I will be taking out insurance to avoid the medicare levy surcharge as for me it will actually save me money in the next financial year.
I've been meaning to do this for a couple of years now but have been lazy and although I haven't needed it in that time and touch wood I won't need to call on it anytime soon it will be nice to have it there.
It's just like your car insurance... I've been driving for 7 years now and have never made a claim ( touch wood again ). Would I drive without insurance, never, because you just never know. I would rather pay a relatively small premium now and have the peace of mind than be up for $$K's if something I can't control were to go wrong.
Insurance (of any sort) is just that. It's there for peace of mind and it will protect you if something was to happen.
I guess it's a personal choice.
I've been meaning to do this for a couple of years now but have been lazy and although I haven't needed it in that time and touch wood I won't need to call on it anytime soon it will be nice to have it there.
It's just like your car insurance... I've been driving for 7 years now and have never made a claim ( touch wood again
). Would I drive without insurance, never, because you just never know. I would rather pay a relatively small premium now and have the peace of mind than be up for $$K's if something I can't control were to go wrong.Insurance (of any sort) is just that. It's there for peace of mind and it will protect you if something was to happen.
I guess it's a personal choice.
Hey Buzz, that is all wise stuff. We have had TPI and Income Protection Insurance as self employed people. But it only covers major stuff. Hubby's broken elbow would normally be 6 weeks off work; being self employed he was back after two weeks. All the instructions to our bank accounts, passwords Insurances etc are filed in a place where the kids know to find. We too are worth way more dead than alive! So at least if bad stuff happens, the details can be taken care of and one less worry for the kidlets (adults!) to deal with. So damn complex it all is!
This has been a topic of conversation at our house too. Even if the gov took our rebate we would still fork out to pay for private cover. More than money has been saved for us. From wisdom teeth removal, to cancer, heart conditions (causing stroke), two c-sections and various pregnancy and baby complications we have been saved much stress as our family and ourselves had private cover. It's not all about the dollars when you are talking about your health.
And it's now even more important as the kids get bigger and we get older.
And it's now even more important as the kids get bigger and we get older.
By definition the average person will be worse off from having it, as insurance companies need to make money. The 30% rebate tips the scale in ones favour.
If health insurance was 'worth it' for everyone then the companies would fold. Don't forget it's the job of the insurance companies to make you think it's really worth it.
If health insurance was 'worth it' for everyone then the companies would fold. Don't forget it's the job of the insurance companies to make you think it's really worth it.
While I do agree that at the end of the day these insurance companies will be doing whatever they can to continue to make big profits I don't think the average person would be worse off in the whole scheme of things. The government plays a big part here...
The government is doing any and everything they can to make it worth it for a lot of people. The more people they can get to take up private health insurance the 'cheaper' it will be for them in the long run - even after funding all the tax rebates etc.
First they offered incentives like the 30% rebate which made the idea of private insurance a little attractive but it is now taking the direction of penalising those who can affort to take it up but refuse to do so and also penalising those who don't take it up early. So there has been a shift from enticing people to join, to penalising those that don't and I believe this shift will get worse in years to come.
The scrapping of the 30% rebate wont make much of a difference. The Gov put the medicare levy surcharge up. So what changes.?......you pay more for it, you dont have it you still pay more by way of medicare surcharge.
Our Family unit has it and most likely wont be without it.
I tell you what I would do ........Sell the rice burner get an oridinary car not some jap crap thats been sitting on the docks for the last 20 years waiting to come to Oz with wheezey turbo's . What you save on insurance for that grey import will get you your health insurance. If you want to go fast get a motorcycle.
But hey I dont like cars. I suppose you have one of those stupid blow-off valves......they really **** me off.
Our Family unit has it and most likely wont be without it.
I tell you what I would do ........Sell the rice burner get an oridinary car not some jap crap thats been sitting on the docks for the last 20 years waiting to come to Oz with wheezey turbo's . What you save on insurance for that grey import will get you your health insurance. If you want to go fast get a motorcycle.
But hey I dont like cars. I suppose you have one of those stupid blow-off valves......they really **** me off.
So it's the government that offers the '31' year old bonus premium loading thing?
If the government wasn't involved it wouldn't be worth it on average from a pure financial sense. Someones gotta pay for those big salaries.
I agree and think we can count on the government trying to make it worth it.
Maybe I'm just fearful that we'll head in the US direction. Probably shouldn't have watched SICKO by Michael Moore...
If the government wasn't involved it wouldn't be worth it on average from a pure financial sense. Someones gotta pay for those big salaries.
I agree and think we can count on the government trying to make it worth it.
Maybe I'm just fearful that we'll head in the US direction. Probably shouldn't have watched SICKO by Michael Moore...
Absolutely and most people do believe it is worth it because of that. Hospitals, specialist depts. and Drs. both public and private vary a lot with how good their service is and most people that choose private wouldn't know how good or bad specific Drs. or facilities are.
I like private for fast attendance and the ability to pick specific Drs. but public for ER and their specialist depts. like cardiac and obstetrics.
Many private hospitals don't cope too well with anything unexpected and don't share their pt. info with other Drs. who potentially can prevent errors from occurring nor do they use the same protocols and policies that public hospitals use to diagnose and treat (are too quick to operate in other words).
Public is not as bad as people make out and private is not alway so great. Just my 2c worth.
I don't have Private Health Cover, and I doubt very much that I will ever take it out. My experiences with health cover.
Scenario 1 - Hubby had eye complaint, serious at one stage and thought it was Cancer. Went through a barrage of tests week after week. Went to fill in the forms for the prodecure and register as a patient and was told on the quiet not to put down the private health cover details (he had private health cover) because it will end up costing us. Just to put down the medicare details. After months of testing and appointments, never paid a thing.
Scenario 2 - Hubby also had a cyst in his chin which kept growing. Had quite invasive plastic surgery, kept over night, various outpatient appointments following up etc, never paid a thing.
Scenario 3 - Mum had a ruptured disc in her back. Was transported via ambulance (not emergency) to hospital (talking Phillip Island to city), had back surgery within a 2 week period, rehab visits etc, never paid a thing.
Scenario 4 - Sister in law had premmie baby. She had private health insurance but chose to go public because of other private health stories. Had emergency caeser, kid in NICU for 3 weeks, never paid a thing.
Scenario 5 - Best friend, same situation as above, different hospital, never paid a thing.
Sceario 6 - Other friend, had private health ins, went had baby in private hospital, ended up having emergency caeser. Was out of pocket $3500 for the anaethetist plus other expenses.
Scenario 1 - Hubby had eye complaint, serious at one stage and thought it was Cancer. Went through a barrage of tests week after week. Went to fill in the forms for the prodecure and register as a patient and was told on the quiet not to put down the private health cover details (he had private health cover) because it will end up costing us. Just to put down the medicare details. After months of testing and appointments, never paid a thing.
Scenario 2 - Hubby also had a cyst in his chin which kept growing. Had quite invasive plastic surgery, kept over night, various outpatient appointments following up etc, never paid a thing.
Scenario 3 - Mum had a ruptured disc in her back. Was transported via ambulance (not emergency) to hospital (talking Phillip Island to city), had back surgery within a 2 week period, rehab visits etc, never paid a thing.
Scenario 4 - Sister in law had premmie baby. She had private health insurance but chose to go public because of other private health stories. Had emergency caeser, kid in NICU for 3 weeks, never paid a thing.
Scenario 5 - Best friend, same situation as above, different hospital, never paid a thing.
Sceario 6 - Other friend, had private health ins, went had baby in private hospital, ended up having emergency caeser. Was out of pocket $3500 for the anaethetist plus other expenses.
I don't have any figures available on me but I know health care cost the government big money every year. If they can get people to fund their own health care via insurance then they can save a lot come budget time and direct the funds elsewhere.
This is why they will try to curb the past notions that all taxpayers are responsible for paying for the health care of all those that are sick and do everything in their power to get people that can to fund there own care.
Of course in the end the insurers will profit big out of all of this. Hmmm... any private health insurers listed?
This is why they will try to curb the past notions that all taxpayers are responsible for paying for the health care of all those that are sick and do everything in their power to get people that can to fund there own care.
Of course in the end the insurers will profit big out of all of this. Hmmm... any private health insurers listed?
Hmmm... would this really be a good thing?
My health in the hands of a corporation - a souless entity focused on the dollar that operates in an environment of low information (i.e. do they really pay out when you need it? How good is Doctor X?).
- Or -
The government. Inefficient, but, it's essentially 'the people'.
My health in the hands of a corporation - a souless entity focused on the dollar that operates in an environment of low information (i.e. do they really pay out when you need it? How good is Doctor X?).
- Or -
The government. Inefficient, but, it's essentially 'the people'.
Well, maybe the government isn't less efficient. Sure competition drives efficiency, although I'd would have to be FAR more efficient before it can offset costs such as advertising (TV, print, internet), duplication of administrative staff, shareholder profit, glossy brouchures, claims infrastructure, call centres, etc, etc.
Interesting thread, and having quite a few extended family in the health industry in various capacities, an issue that I've discussed and researched at great length.
What do we do? We have the absolute minimum private health hospital cover only that we need to avoid the Medicare surcharge, and use iselect every time we renew, to check that we have the optimal policy. The fact that it's cheaper to have hospital cover than to pay the surcharge makes it an easy decision, but I think we'd have hospital cover even without 30% rebate or surcharge considerations.
The determinant for me is waiting time for "elective" surgery. You'd be amazed how uncomfortable you can be, and still have the surgery classified as "elective". Basically, if it's not going to kill you, just hurt a lot and reduce your quality of life, then it's elective. If I need a hip replacement, cornea transplant, etc, I want to know that I can have it performed in a timely manner. Hubby works as a contractor, and doesn't get paid unless he's working. He may have a health problem arise that prevents him from working, yet is still classified as "elective". Waiting for that public hospital waiting list would then be very expensive... a few months of lost wages would pay for decades of hospital coverage. Ouch! He has income protection insurance, but I can imagine there are loads of conditions that would be severe enough to keep him from working, but not severe enough to trigger his income protection insurance
I agree that the public health system is perfectly adequate; in some instances, such as birthing services, I think it's superior to the private system. It is, however, outrageous that a private patient can pay more than a public patient for the same services.
We've had "extras" cover in the past, but after several years of self-insuring, I don't think I'd consider extras cover again. I can't imagine a scenario under which it's worthwhile, even if you're a heavy user of allied health practitioners. When we go to the dentist (or optometrist, or physio), they ask if we have private health cover. I say no, and that seems to attract about a 30% discount. (If I had insurance, yes, that would really **** me off!) Combine that with the fact that you generally only get a pretty small portion of the bill back anyway (if you do have insurance), and I think you pay about the same whether you have insurance or not. Having the insurance just seems to allow the service providers to charge more! But I'm open to being persuaded that I'm mistaken; perhaps there could be good arguments for "extras" that I haven't considered.
[As an aside, we feel somewhat obliged to keep our hospital cover... our twin sons were born nearly 10 weeks premie, and were two of our health fund's top 10 claimants in the year they were born, at $400K and $440K ... Combine that with our recent flood - total bill looks like it'll be $180-200K - and we're certainly ahead on insurances... ]
What do we do? We have the absolute minimum private health hospital cover only that we need to avoid the Medicare surcharge, and use iselect every time we renew, to check that we have the optimal policy. The fact that it's cheaper to have hospital cover than to pay the surcharge makes it an easy decision, but I think we'd have hospital cover even without 30% rebate or surcharge considerations.
The determinant for me is waiting time for "elective" surgery. You'd be amazed how uncomfortable you can be, and still have the surgery classified as "elective". Basically, if it's not going to kill you, just hurt a lot and reduce your quality of life, then it's elective. If I need a hip replacement, cornea transplant, etc, I want to know that I can have it performed in a timely manner. Hubby works as a contractor, and doesn't get paid unless he's working. He may have a health problem arise that prevents him from working, yet is still classified as "elective". Waiting for that public hospital waiting list would then be very expensive... a few months of lost wages would pay for decades of hospital coverage.
Ouch! He has income protection insurance, but I can imagine there are loads of conditions that would be severe enough to keep him from working, but not severe enough to trigger his income protection insuranceI agree that the public health system is perfectly adequate; in some instances, such as birthing services, I think it's superior to the private system. It is, however, outrageous that a private patient can pay more than a public patient for the same services.
We've had "extras" cover in the past, but after several years of self-insuring, I don't think I'd consider extras cover again. I can't imagine a scenario under which it's worthwhile, even if you're a heavy user of allied health practitioners. When we go to the dentist (or optometrist, or physio), they ask if we have private health cover. I say no, and that seems to attract about a 30% discount. (If I had insurance, yes, that would really **** me off!) Combine that with the fact that you generally only get a pretty small portion of the bill back anyway (if you do have insurance), and I think you pay about the same whether you have insurance or not. Having the insurance just seems to allow the service providers to charge more!
But I'm open to being persuaded that I'm mistaken; perhaps there could be good arguments for "extras" that I haven't considered.[As an aside, we feel somewhat obliged to keep our hospital cover... our twin sons were born nearly 10 weeks premie, and were two of our health fund's top 10 claimants in the year they were born, at $400K and $440K ...
Combine that with our recent flood - total bill looks like it'll be $180-200K - and we're certainly ahead on insurances... ]
Tracey, just as an aside, one of the problems with iselect is that they only recommend companies from their "Approved Product List" from "participating health funds".
There are many PHIs that do not pay iselect to be 'participating'.
See: http://www.iselect.com.au/private-h...articipating_private_medical_health_funds.jsp
I saw this on ACA or TT some months ago - thay are good for something
I must admit I was narky with my mother's private health insurers. She is 80 and she just pays it each year on the basis of what is on the bill. Now, I realise that it is up to each of us to take responsibility for our own information, but an 80 year old who is legally blind and cant use the internet is hardly in a great spot to gather information.
Anyhow, she was commenting about how much it was costing her, so we did a check and found that she was covered for stuff like pregnancy! WT! So I gave her the information she needed to call the company and reduce the services she was being covered for. Their response was 'why on earth are you paying for that'. Well, because you dont inform people that they have other options!
Wouldnt it be a PR proactive thing for Insurance companies to actually contact people and suggest better policies for them?
Rather like when Telstra calls up and says we can do a better deal for you - you dont need to ring me up and tell me, I am already with Telstra so why dont you just go ahead and make my calls cheaper!
I tried iselect by the way; and it came up with 'no matches' - it couldnt even find what I was currently on. Think it is an SA thing, doesnt work as well.
Anyhow, she was commenting about how much it was costing her, so we did a check and found that she was covered for stuff like pregnancy! WT! So I gave her the information she needed to call the company and reduce the services she was being covered for. Their response was 'why on earth are you paying for that'. Well, because you dont inform people that they have other options!
Wouldnt it be a PR proactive thing for Insurance companies to actually contact people and suggest better policies for them?
Rather like when Telstra calls up and says we can do a better deal for you - you dont need to ring me up and tell me, I am already with Telstra so why dont you just go ahead and make my calls cheaper!
I tried iselect by the way; and it came up with 'no matches' - it couldnt even find what I was currently on. Think it is an SA thing, doesnt work as well.
