Property self management

[Peterw]

Sadly the area around insurance can some times be a very grey one, and some how only gets resolved after an event ends up in court, and a precedent is set.

I thought the agent having some liability when a tradesman erred, was a bit far fetched. I listed it as a bit of a "sell job" by the insurance broker.

The question I raise is, when someone self manages, should they get some sort of Professional Indemnity insurance, as well as the usual building insurance.

Sorry to say, that I don't know the answer.

 

[Mitch1]

Sadly the area around insurance can some times be a very grey one, and some how only gets resolved after an event ends up in court, and a precedent is set.

I thought the agent having some liability when a tradesman erred, was a bit far fetched. I listed it as a bit of a "sell job" by the insurance broker.

The question I raise is, when someone self manages, should they get some sort of Professional Indemnity insurance, as well as the usual building insurance.

Sorry to say, that I don't know the answer.

It really does sound like a bit of a sell job. From my layman's perspective, I would take a guess that when someone is going to sue you, they choose the route that is available to them.
So if you have P.I. They will sue under that to suit the suit if it holds more water but if a LL only has P.L. They will look for the appropriate means within that cover to address their issue.
I really don't think they will care what cover you have, they will find a lawyer who can use either to make it a successful win. I really do wonder if both are necessary or if it is just 'overkill'

 

[mattysavager]

This really interests me. So, If a PM or a LL hire a qualified electrician to attend to an issue in an IP I would have considered this 'good judgement' - but if the electrician stuffs up, it can then be considered bad judgment? so the PM or LL should have public liability to cover the physical as well as P.I. To cover the 'bad service' provided' ??.

During my time managing a Property Management department, the advice given to me by our lawyers was that the property manager could be seen to be 'project managing' any work that occurs at the property, even though that's not really what we do.

On that advice, if I organised a licensed electrician to do work (I found them, sent them a work order, arranged access, and paid the invoice), and the work was defective and somebody died, I could be held liable. The owner could argue that there was an implied responsibility for the property passed to the agent in the management contract, and that the agent could take a fall for a decision that the Owner made.

The company I worked for, and the Owner who neglected repairs (despite being told about the issues endlessly) were both sued for around $75,000 by tenants. The ruling, in my opinion, was erroneous and should have been appealed by the Owner, but it was not. An interesting read:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/qld/QCAT/2012/663.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=metrocity

Matt

 

[lee.omare.com.a]

Thanks for your response. Whilst i do agree, having a realesate who is useless is not really helping my situation. Changing estate agents is my other option.

I think managing it personally, as long as all the boxes are ticked, should be pretty risk free. Just this real estate seems to think my rent money is theirs for the taking with any fees etc they can try and jab me with. Like $80 to go check a smoke alarm batteries. Like seriously are they kidding. I could buy two new ones and install them cheaper than that. seems with all the work i end up doing maintenance wise etc i might as a well manage it myself. still happy to be convinced either way. Be good to get a few more thoughts on the subject.

My biggest bug bear at the moment is all estate agents seem to use the same financial platform as the statements are all the same format. One estate agent convinced me to go to digital statements and srapped the $4.40monthly fee. the other one wants me to go digital but refuses to drop the fee. Even though the contract says its for mail and paper costs etc. So i have refused to go paperless until the fee goes. Why are some estate agents brilliant and others just see the landlord as a source of money.

I was just thinking of giving it a go with this one propoerty and potentially clawing back some funds.

If you're not used to keeping ledgers and account definitely use an agent. If your tenant stops paying rent and you don't have the means to prove it at the Tribunal (tenant ledger) it can be a nightmare to legally remove them. Cheers

 

[sharpcq]

I think if you have the time to keep on top of the relevant legislation then anyone can self manage quite easily. Is it really worth it? Not in my opinion.

Keeping in mind I am also a Licensed Real Estate Agent I could be accused of being bias but the fees paid to a Property Manager are pretty minimal considering everything that can and does happen throughout a tenancy.

For the sake of saving yourself a few $$$ it's not really worth the headache.