Purchasing in VIC - Frankston Area #2

[funkysouth]

Interesting

Interesting to discover that a large number of Frankston Agents recieved a hoax realestate.com enqury on Wednesday. The email originated from an individual pretending to be from the ACCC and it was directed towards any listings that were advertised with a price below Frankston's Median Price. It contained exerpts from the Trades Practices Act and made false accusations and threats based on the advertised price.
With so much discussion on this forum in relation to vendors being silly for selling under the median price and agents advertising under this level, I wonder how a median price can be achieved without sales under this? The Median price takes into account all residential house sales in Frankston and not all properties make the requirements of this level. i.e: Small homes, damaged homes, poor street appeal, long term tenancy agreements etc.
The emails were all forwarded on to the ACCC to bring it to their attention and they are currently tracing the origins.
I have no doubt that the offending person(s) are regular viewers or posters on this forum. The accusations are ludicrus and the ACCC has indicated they have no issue with any Frankston Agents in this regard.

 

[BayView]

I'm doing a big Reno job in the same street, very near this house at 6 Kareela Rd. This is a great area that's handy to everything, and very peaceful in my experience. Whisper-quiet actually. Yeh, surprised me too.

I knew the agent selling this property from past experiences , and this give-away pricing for such a property is damn near criminal.

These imbeciles sold the place within a week for $220K. The old couple who've lived there most of their lives probably, wouldn't have known any better. The place was clean and neat, in need of lots of work but still another 20/30K could have easily been achieved.

There were soooo many people I spoke with who were interested in this place.

This sort of 'Easy-sale' mentality from agencies really makes my blood boil.

One of the local Franger agents used to regularly advertise a 1 bedder unit for $95k a few years ago when we bought our 2 bedder in Frangers.

I used to see the ad every week in the local papers.

Now, I have a retail background, and am wel away of all the marketing tricks to get customers in. One day I called and asked about it out of curiosity and guess what?.....

It was sold!! But amazingly, they had others for sale - not as cheap, but have a look. How lucky was I??

This is an old marketing trick from every industry on earth (except maybe prostitution).

It's called a "loss leader" and they olny have one or two available to legalise the ad, and it gets the punters in the door.

All golf retail outlets use them; usually golf balls, and there will only be a few actually for sale until sold out.

When I worked in r/e for the worst 3 months of my life as an agent's rep, we had one such property - under no circumstances was it to be sold. There was always a photo of it prominently placed in the window with For Sale on it.

It actually belonged to the Principal and had a tenant in it. Good one.

****************************************************************

Look, there is a lot of silly buggers that goes on in the r/e industry. We all know that.

Frangers will be particularly competitive in the silly games department because of the high volume of lower-end properties the agents have to fight over, and the high number of agencies in the town.

The commissions on these properties are low, but the work is still the same as a high-end property, so you'd have to expect them to be trying every angle possible to get the sale and do the least amount of legwork.

It's a hotspot, the agents are busy, and they won't waste time on someone who is p.i.s.s.ing (stupid bloody swearword function) them off with hum-har enquiries and stupid low-ball offers, and generally being a nuisance. They can very quickly ascertain who is high maintenance and low return if they are experienced. If you are going to dick them around for a measly $1,500 commission they will simply blow you off.

As for that old couple who sold cheap; I can't comment as to why. Except to say that if anything, in this market the agents would probably be over-quoting to get the listing.
The old couple may have sold cheap because of a number of factors beyond their control.

They may have had a stack of conditional offers and one 30 day unconditional cash offer.

Our 2nd IP was exactly this situation. 2 bed villa unit in a complex of 10. Old lady now in a nursing home, kids handling the sale, needed the cash for the home for the old lady. No B&P inspections, no subject to, just a lower offer (10% discount on asking - hardly unreasonable) with quick settlement.

Should I have offered more because she was a little old lady?

No way; I deal with them in golf and have been for 30 years. They are evil, man.

 

[toony]

Agent Bashing in Frankston

I am tiring of the agent bashing in Frankston. I am not an agent. I do somewhat believe in Jenman and his no advertising no auctions stance on selling.

Frankston has many agents. There must be close to 15-20 agencies. So amongst those there must be some goods one and bad ones.

I used Crowders when I bought 10 yrs ago and use them as property managers. Now i am not happy with them now as they are Wentworth Crowders and are part of a national agency. I do not need a national agency nor do i need a PM who manages 200 properties.

I want local knowledge from a local agency from a small team/principals I can build a professional relationship with. I dont even know who the agents are who work for Wentworth Crowders. So I am still looking.

I have always seen the future is bright for Frankston. But it still has its shitty elements that i am not comfortable with. I would not educate my kids there.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I used Crowders when I bought 10 yrs ago and use them as property managers. Now i am not happy with them now as they are Wentworth Crowders and are part of a national agency. I do not need a national agency nor do i need a PM who manages 200 properties.

I want local knowledge from a local agency from a small team/principals I can build a professional relationship with. I dont even know who the agents are who work for Wentworth Crowders. So I am still looking.

And now they are Century 21 Wentworth Crowders And this is the the mouthful the receptionist says each time when you ring them, ....."Welcome to Century 21 Wentworth Crowders Frankston"

(I have a property that is managed through them as well)

 

[toony]

The first agent I chose was only interested in conditioning us down. The second agent was the same. Needless to say we didn't sell and still hold this property.
For what it is worth, had I sold it at the price the agents were suggesting I would have lost $40,000 - as confirmed by a bank valuation.

I am sure thats the same everywhere. All the agent is doing is trying to set a price so he can exceed your expectations or make an easier sale. This is why its important to know the price. Agents are only salesmen. Dont know about you, but i dont hold alot of respect for them.

 

[Mindmaster]

I have been keeping an eye on the Frankston South area for some time now.

If you were to do a search on Realestate.com.au you would be quite surprised! Using the following search criteria;

minimum block size 500sqm
minimum bdrms (3)
maximum price $400,000

There were only 3 properties in the frankston high school zone for sale.

Interesting!!! This area is doing very well in deed!

I could be using RE.com wrong but from what I've seen, most properties, even the decent sized ones, don't have block sizes listed (frustrating) so a search based on block size of 500sqm will miss some properties that do have 500sqm.

Does that sound right?

 

[yachtiefrankstn]

price fixing is a crime - go ask clever Mr Pratt

When I worked in r/e for the worst 3 months of my life as an agent's rep, we had one such property - under no circumstances was it to be sold. There was always a photo of it prominently placed in the window with For Sale on it. It actually belonged to the Principal and had a tenant in it. Good one.

The late Mr Richard Pratt thought he could get away with price fixing. Although he was intellectually and financially more formidable than most Frankston agents, he didn't get away with it. So be warned Frankston agents who manipulate prices - the arm of the law is long. Wait your time, be patient.....justice is coming to you. There is a price to pay for your hubris.

Price fixing is a crime because it does enormous economic harm. It is also a criminal offence in most developed countries, including Australia. Bayview, your former boss could be locked up and fined based on your post alone. The case would be heard in a criminal court, not in the relatively dignified confines of a civil court.

Agents who play the price-fixing game: try to imagine the shame of being busted.......from being best salesman of the year to being a common criminal! It's a long way to fall for what you think is a victimless crime. Oh you won't be able to take the kids to Disneyland if you are convicted - the US does not generally give visas to people with criminal records. Be assured, you are being watched closely. Justice won't happen overnight. But it will happen.

Remember, Mr Pratt's own staff, ordinarily loyal people, had no choice but to testify against him or they would have been charged themselves. You own staff will turn against you come the day or reckoning, they won't have any choice.

So, all you agents, do the right thing or pay the price. Ask not for whom the bell tolls mr agent......it may well toll for thee. Interesting indeed how Funkysouth and Tooney seem to fire in unison each time someones bashes the poor, defenceless agents.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I could be using RE.com wrong but from what I've seen, most properties, even the decent sized ones, don't have block sizes listed (frustrating) so a search based on block size of 500sqm will miss some properties that do have 500sqm.

Does that sound right?

For any specific property, you can go the DSE site or use Google Earth which also has a measurement function.

Then use Streetview to see the streetscape and local streets. You almost need not to go and inspect the property?

 

[toony]

Do some more Melbourne research.

Yachtiefrankston

Your beef with Frankston agents is, in my view, not warranted.

I have always lived in the bayside surburbs of Melbourne. I grew up in the mentone area, now live in Aspendale and my parents, brother and sister live in different parts of Frankston.

I did not move into the area a few months ago and have not invested in Frankston due to all the publicity of recent times eg. Frankston by-pass, marina etc.

So i consider myself a local. I only invest in Bayside Melbourne.

I invested (10 yrs ago), but not lived, in Frankston due to proximity to bay, peninsula and the existing infrastructure eg. hospital, university etc. From an investing perspective its heaps better than Dandenong, Cranbourne, Box Hill, Ringwood etc. Basically its got the bay.

Why dont you live in Frankston you say.

There are many reasons;
1. Distance to city. As an IT contractor its too far for me.
2. There are good areas (South Frankston), but the others i would not want to live there.
3. Frankston has crappy areas. (for want of a better word). The Beach St area is full of flats and druggies. North Frankston is housing commission. Karingal is not an area I would want to live.
4. For this reason I dont want to educate my kids there. May as well live in Mt Eliza then.
5. For most Melbournians, Frankston still has this poor reputation.

Toooooony to Yachtiefrankston - its not the agents fault. Go discover the other parts of Melbourne and then you will realise why the prices demanded in Frankston are what they are. Why many people do not want to live in Frankston.

As much as you interstaters have pushed the merits of Frankston, it is not a pot of Gold. It will take time. Those with any money live in Sth Frankston or Mt Eliza. The battlers (I dont know how to describe this without offending anyone) live in other parts of Frankston. Hence these are the prices transacted for these properties.

 

[yachtiefrankstn]

When I worked in r/e for the worst 3 months of my life as an agent's rep, we had one such property - under no circumstances was it to be sold. There was always a photo of it prominently placed in the window with For Sale on it.
It actually belonged to the Principal and had a tenant in it. Good one. .

The issue Tooney aka Funkysouth is not one of prices. It is about Price fixing. Let the law take its course. Agents who think they can get away with this have another thing coming when the law catches up with them.

Yachtiefrankston Your beef with Frankston agents is, in my view, not warranted. Toooooony to Yachtiefrankston - its not the agents fault. It will take time. Those with any money live in Sth Frankston or Mt Eliza. .

For someone who doesnt own locally, you are on this thread rather a lot. Which agency are you associated with Funkysouth/Tooney? Any good home opens this week? As for your kids education. Unless you plan to send them to Harvard or Oxford, the branch of Monash Uni in Frankston sounds fine to me. It's attracting international post-graduate students from all over the world. Are you saying they are dumb for studying in Frankston? As Mr Richard Pratt discovered, there will be a heavy price to pay for hubris. Price fixing, price baiting are illegal. Individual agents, not just their bosses, will pay dearly for their shonky behavior

 

[oneuppmanship]

Why dont you live in Frankston you say.

There are many reasons;
1. Distance to city. As an IT contractor its too far for me.
2. There are good areas (South Frankston), but the others i would not want to live there.
3. Frankston has crappy areas. (for want of a better word). The Beach St area is full of flats and druggies. North Frankston is housing commission. Karingal is not an area I would want to live.
4. For this reason I dont want to educate my kids there. May as well live in Mt Eliza then.
5. For most Melbournians, Frankston still has this poor reputation.

Toooooony to Yachtiefrankston - its not the agents fault. Go discover the other parts of Melbourne and then you will realise why the prices demanded in Frankston are what they are. Why many people do not want to live in Frankston.

Those with any money live in Sth Frankston or Mt Eliza. The battlers (I dont know how to describe this without offending anyone) live in other parts of Frankston. Hence these are the prices transacted for these properties.

I've tried so hard not to comment yet everytime I read this sort of thing, I can't help but get a little upset.

I'll just be nice and suggest that what you've written must be tongue-in-cheek, or incredibly generalised, for no-one could make statements this incorrect, with so much conviction...surely??!! WOW!

 

[BayView]

The late Mr Richard Pratt thought he could get away with price fixing. Although he was intellectually and financially more formidable than most Frankston agents, he didn't get away with it. So be warned Frankston agents who manipulate prices - the arm of the law is long. Wait your time, be patient.....justice is coming to you. There is a price to pay for your hubris.

I can't see where you get that there is price fixing in Frangers YF. At any one time, there is only one agent selling one property, so there is not a host of agents selling the same property and at the same price. Sometimes there was an "open listing", where the Vendor could have more than one agent selling the property, but the Vendor usually set the asking price in this case, and the Vendor is feee to sell the property at whatever price they want.

I agree that agents will indulge in price manipulation; anything to get he buyers up and the Vendors down. It is the only way to get the deal done quite often (from experience). We often had to tell Vendors there was a low offer (when there wasn't one) so they would start to think about lowering their very unreasonable asking price; otherwise we were all wasting our time.

Bayview, your former boss could be locked up and fined based on your post alone. The case would be heard in a criminal court, not in the relatively dignified confines of a civil court.

This is not price fixing; it is misleading advertising, but nonetheless it is legal. If anyone asked, the property was always for sale, and it was for sale. But good luck getting the Vendor to agree to any offer though. Quite legal.

Agents who play the price-fixing game: try to imagine the shame of being busted.......from being best salesman of the year to being a common criminal! It's a long way to fall for what you think is a victimless crime. Oh you won't be able to take the kids to Disneyland if you are convicted - the US does not generally give visas to people with criminal records. Be assured, you are being watched closely. Justice won't happen overnight. But it will happen.

This is becoming emotional and hysterical waffle now.

Remember, Mr Pratt's own staff, ordinarily loyal people, had no choice but to testify against him or they would have been charged themselves. You own staff will turn against you come the day or reckoning, they won't have any choice.

So, all you agents, do the right thing or pay the price. Ask not for whom the bell tolls mr agent......it may well toll for thee. Interesting indeed how Funkysouth and Tooney seem to fire in unison each time someones bashes the poor, defenceless agents

As above.
Sorry YF, you are sounding like the zealous christian grandmother waving her arms around with the bible clutched in one hand, who proclaims we will all be struck down from on high by the wrath of God.
Please move on.

 

[yachtiefrankstn]

more legal waffle

I can't see where you get that there is price fixing in Frangers YF. I agree that agents will indulge in price manipulation. We often had to tell Vendors there was a low offer (when there wasn't one) This is not price fixing; it is misleading advertising, but nonetheless it is legal. QUOTE]

Maybe its permissible in Mongolia or Burundi. But not here in Australia. Coming from a legal background, I assure you that False & Misleading conduct is definitely NOT legal (s52 TPA). Fines and imprisonment apply. Individual agents, not just their bosses, can end up paying dearly for their shonky behavior Your former boss misled you if he told you otherwise. You were smart enough to leave the real estate industry, you deserve better.

>>We often had to tell Vendors there was a low offer (when there wasn't one) Mst people would call that lying. The law calls it price fixing. Posting what you once did (or were told to do) isn't enhancing your standing among the local grannies in Frankston. It also puts you at risk of prosecution (Pratt's employees were given the option of testifying against their boss). Lies are lies - its un-Australian.

Remember, most local Frankston grannies own just one house, they are hardly wealthy and don't need to be mucked about by rapacious agents or their mates, the "lets buy it at a fire-sale price" investors. And you are right, lets leave this topic alone. Let the law take its course & lets see which agent gets busted first. Then the rest will learn. Be assured that some agents who indulge in price baiting practices, are being investigated. But these things take time. Sorry to waffle. Its Friday night - lets have a drink shall we?

 

[Mindmaster]

The warnings in thos thread on unethical real estate agents have been useful.

To help make this thread more constructive, does any one have any RE agents in Frankston they would recommend?

 

[funkysouth]

identity fraud

I am not Toony and I do not post under any other name.

 

[BayView]

The warnings in thos thread on unethical real estate agents have been useful.

To help make this thread more constructive, does any one have any RE agents in Frankston they would recommend?

We have an IP in Frangers - since 2003.

Bought it from Abel, and they've managed it ever since.

I'd recommend them for management.

 

[toony]

All I am trying to say is that Frankston is not Manly.

I dont agree with all these outsiders saying that the Frankston median should be higher than it is and its the agents fault for this.

The Frankston median is determined by the market.

Some 10 years ago Frankston was in the lowest median priced category for Melbourne. Its not now.

 

[newhigh]

frankston - the next manly

All I am trying to say is that Frankston is not Manly

Nonsense. The Principal of MPRE/Harcourts told me that Frankston was going to be the next Manly when I was buying property from him. I am not sure what he tells sellers but he seems to love the Manly comparison when buyers call him. He personally told me prices would triple in 7 years and that he was buying himself.

The Frankston median is determined by the market.

Utter nonsense: the Frankston market is manipulated by commission hungry agents who are into price baiting and price fixing. A former agent admitted to it a few posts above. And these sort of admissions make local owners and investors angry because most locals have only one asset of significance - their house. Pulling down house prices using queer price baiting stunts isn't going to make locals happy - their homes are everything they have worked for.You don't need to be a Rhodes scholar to see what is going on. The only people who dont acknowledge that price baiting and manipulation are taking place are agents or former agents or those people trying to curry favor with agents in the vain hope of getting a bargain from some unfortunate, uninformed granny.

There's a lot of anger out there and the agents have brought it upon themselves. There is no reason why Frankston, a marina suburb, should be selling under the greater Melb median of $426k. When I spoke to the Principal of MPRE Harcourts seeking to buy a house, he predicted that prices would triple over 7 years. I'm not sure what he'd say if the boot was on the other foot and I was selling my houses. He'd probably tell me something less bullish or perhaps invoke global warming as a reason for price weakness.

PS. Good on you Tooney. For someone who purpotedly owns locally, you sure seem keen on defending local agents and preserving the worth of your investment. Anyone in the family working as an agent perhaps? A big hello to Funkysouth.

 

[Peter Parker]

There's a lot of anger out there and the agents have brought it upon themselves. There is no reason why Frankston, a marina suburb, should be selling under the greater Melb median of $426k. When I spoke to the Principal of MPRE Harcourts seeking to buy a house, he predicted that prices would triple over 7 years.

Let's try some comparisons:

* Frankston is an hour's train ride from Melbourne CBD past graffiti-daubed fences
* Manly is a 40-50 min ferry ride from Sydney CBD over Sydney Harbour

* Frankston is about 40km from the Melbourne CBD in a city where the 'average' suburb is about 20-25km out.
* Manly is something like 15km from Sydney CBD, whereas the 'average' suburb in Sydney is maybe 25-30km out.

* Frankston is a large suburb. 95% of its homes are more than 10 min walk from the beach.
* Manly, despite its fame, is a small suburb. No house is more than 10 minutes walk from water.

* Like Williamstown (Vic), Sorrento (Vic) and Peppermint Grove (WA), Manly is on a narrow peninsula with water on both sides.
* Frankston is not really on a peninsula unless you define the low-socio economic Hastings as being on the other side.

* Sydney/Manly have a warmer climate more suited to a beachy lifestyle than Melbourne/Frankston. Sydney, like Perth, also has a more beach-based culture than Melbourne. Hence beach lifestyles should be more valued in those other cities.

If you were going to compare Manly with a Melbourne suburb, appropriate comparisons might be Williamstown, Brighton or Sandringham rather than Frankston. These Melbourne examples are all 'blue chip' suburbs with medians several times Frankston's.

Frankston is no Manly and is unlikely to become one.

While I don't deny that Frankston is capable of improvement and has many lifestyle benefits, the agent who drew close parallels with Manly was being fanciful.

 

[Bayside]

Manly has a Ocean surf beach and a Bay beach Frankston is Bay only.