Qld politicians get a 35% pay rise

[Dazz]

Federal pollies got 3% in 2013 and 3% in 2012. But they did get 28% in 2011.

So yes, both sides have received obscene rises.

It's not a good look for a government intent on cutting spending.

.....and that's all it might be....a look. Sells fantastic paper copy, but I wonder if any of it is true.


To the best of my knowledge Geoff, the 28% figure you quote was not a pay rise per se, but rather a straight swap.


The pollies agreed to completely scrap existing entitlements which were over and above their pay. Te value of those entitlements was calculated, scrapped as an add on and lumped into their existing pay.


Their take home pay remained the same, it did not rise by 28% at all.


Given the 35% figure quoted up in Qld by the article, I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn in the coming weeks that the same process has occurred at the state level. A bunch of existing entitlements are being scrapped, and replaced with the same amount in normal pay.


Of course, that story didn't sound sexy at all. It certainly didn't when the journalists wrote the articles initially at the federal level. Within days, the journalists had dropped the existing entitlement bit and just focussed on the "huge" pay rise. It went down with the public much better, with the resultant hue and outcry.


Why doesn't the OP dig a little deeper than a weblink and find out the full story and report back to all.

 

[willair]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/03/29/13/37/qld-minister-rejects-pay-rise-scrap-call

What do you think about this?

I'm pretty angry about it, especially after they just closed down the school in my suburb and booted out 400 kids. Apparently they can't afford non-essential things like education but they can afford to award themselves massive pay rises...sorry I should say they can afford to "allow" an independent tribunal to award them massive pay rises. I wonder if I can pay someone at my work to "independently" award me a 35% pay rise. I would of course have to accept because it was someone completely "independent" that I have paid to recommend a pay rise for me. That sounds fair.

Oh and $3 million in back pay. Wow...just wow.

There is of course the argument that if we pay more we will get a better quality politician...the only problem with that theory is if you realise that the pay for politicians now is the highest it has ever been...so ask yourself is the talent from current politicians the highest it has ever been?

Campbell Newman gets paid only $50k less than President Barak Obama...

I'm not too sure if we should pay the politicians less or chip in the extra $50k for Obama.

Anyway would be good to hear some others thoughts on this one.

Tim,what do you want,a entrepreneur,or someone with "vision,the last mob in power in QLD All had the habit of mistaking luck for skill and it all backfired bigtime just like snake oil salepeople.

 

[geoffw]

There was a component of their salary rise which was a swap of electoral allowances and the like for straight salary.

The bigger component was catch up. There had been a freeze imposed in 2009. This latest rise was to make up for five years of lost rises. The changes were proposed in July last year but have been delayed until now- possibly because of public reaction. Those changes were announced by the deputy premier when Newman was out of the country.

 

[Rolf Latham]

Pay peanuts get Allergies

Maybe its just me.

regardless of which of the 27 sides of politics we support my beliefs are

1. Put up, or shut up, aka make a difference or stop whining........ while I reckon I can do a better job than many in public office ( maybe) I wont expose my family or friends to the media rubbish that WE have created, so I choose not to begrudge what a politician earns.

2. A public company position with similar responseability and much less "in your face" pseudo accountability pays 2 x or more of what the public office pays.

3. If 2 is remotely in the ball park think about what type of people WE attract to public office.......... those that want to do the right thing and have other means of financial support, or those that cant earn that type of money in the real world. Both groups have much to offer.

I will close with a question..............who believes that heartfelt politicians ( of any persuasion) get into the game for "money" ?



ta
rolf

 

[D.T.]

Maybe its just me.

regardless of which of the 27 sides of politics we support my beliefs are

1. Put up, or shut up, aka make a difference or stop whining........ while I reckon I can do a better job than many in public office ( maybe) I wont expose my family or friends to the media rubbish that WE have created, so I choose not to begrudge what a politician earns.

2. A public company position with similar responseability and much less "in your face" pseudo accountability pays 2 x or more of what the public office pays.

3. If 2 is remotely in the ball park think about what type of people WE attract to public office.......... those that want to do the right thing and have other means of financial support, or those that cant earn that type of money in the real world. Both groups have much to offer.

I will close with a question..............who believes that heartfelt politicians ( of any persuasion) get into the game for "money" ?



ta
rolf

Wise beyond your years, Rolf

 

[Ideo]

No issue with what a politician earns. But, to backdate a large pay rise while telling public sector workers they take a pay cut or lose their jobs doesn't really endear politicians to that many people.

The pay freeze was sound financial management. The large pay rise isn't.

 

[Hoffy]

I would just love to see politicians try to do what we all do with our investments.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/turn...led-clem7-tunnel-sold-off-20130927-2uihw.html

There's an example where Campbell Newman invested a bit over $3 billion and managed to turn that $3 billion into $618 million. If we had that sort of track record with our investments I don't think we would be getting a $70 000 payrise. But it's just this amazing world in politics where they do a horrible job but still manage to profit personally.

It's very much like incompetent CEO's who screw up their company and yet still manage to give themselves a huge payout.

It's pretty messed up that our taxes are forcefully taken to fund this sort of rubbish. And that goes for both sides of politics. Although I do prefer labor because at least they tell you nice things before screwing you, Liberal's just skip straight to the screwing.

Tim, you have this wrong. While it did cost $3bn, this was a predominantly privately funded project. Private investors wore the risk. Not the government. In fact the Govt was able to buy this asset for a quarter of build cost. Pretty good don't you think?

 

[Tigger]

Speaking as a public servant myself, it's untrue to say "many public servants already get higher salaries than politicians do". Most of us nett less per year than Newman's recent pay rise. A few senior ones do but not the vast bulk.

Meanwhile our friend the severely disabled chap is now getting less State-funded assistance that he was before, even though they say they are now putting more $$ into disability services. He is a quadriplegic, has limited use of only one hand and lives alone. No immediate family left and his extended family are all aged and beyond providing much care. Too young for aged care, too old for youth care. His parents provided him with a specially designed and built home before they passed away, so he costs $0 in State housing but they have cut back his in-home visits from 3 to 1 per night. So he has to eat, bathe and go to bed all in the same short visit.

But Newman needs another 70,000 a year so priorities have to be adjusted.

 

[MarkB]

My understanding is the increase was awarded by an independent tribunal since there was a major outcry over salaries a mths back ?

I'm not sure about Queensland, but in Canberra the salaries are all set by the Remuneration Tribunal.

As for independent... well, it could be argued that it isn't subject to any political control - so it is independent in that sense...

But that doesn't mean that it is not indoctrinated by the orthodoxy that in order to attract good people you need to pay good money. Or, otoh, that in order to put up with the crap that rolf detailed in his 2nd post they need to get decent salaries, etc.

In any event, I think it was Bob Hawke who once famously said -

"By 1990 no Australian politician will be living in poverty."
[He didn't actually say that of course - he might as well have though.]

Aint that the truth.

All that aside - my views on politicians -> thieves all of them. Yeah there are smart ones (Costello was lazer sharp) and some could earn a lot more money elsewhere (some are f**king idiots btw).

Irrespective - and this is my biggest issue - with few exceptions, they're all stooges for the machine of party-politics and (in Canberra) they get away with sitting only 20 weeks of the year. For real?

Disclaimer - I am bitter, twisted and cynical ex APS.

 

[Dazz]

I wont expose my family or friends to the media rubbish that WE have created

Private citizens who are entitled to, and enjoy their privacy not being invaded (99.99% of the population) have absolutely no idea what you are talking about as they have never and will never have themselves and their family exposed to the media garbage machine that needs to be fed 24 hours a day.

They are entitled to sit on the sidelines and throw as much muck from their personal little bucket as they can muster. The snide sneers and invective barbs, whilst making them feel better and embitter themselves to the elected leaders, don't actually do anything.....and certainly never produce a worthwhile conclusion.

The luxury of throwing **** from the sidelines is tinged with frustration as they realise their opinion doesn't carry the same amount of weight as an elected representative.

As we used to say on the rigs, "bravery is inversely proportional to the distance from the centre of the action".

From the safety behind a keyboard 4,000km from the action, one can wax lyrical about what is wrong and how easy it is to fix. When you're Johnny-on-the-spot, standing there with no-one else to blame but yourself and responsible for everything that goes on, the solution that is acceptable to all in society, with all of the competing agendas....and there is hundreds of 'em, isn't so crystal clear.

 

[weg]

Speaking as a public servant myself, it's untrue to say "many public servants already get higher salaries than politicians do".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Public_Service

Tigger, note that those pay scales are for 2011, so you could easily add another 10 to 15% onto those figures.

SES Band 2 to Departmental Head salaries WOULD add up to 'many'.

Remember too, there are those not on that scale, who earn well over what the average Departmental Head earns, like Mike Quigley who earned close to 2M pa as head of the NBN - and what a great job he did .

So lets try and put this into perspective... state premiers across the country are only earning the equivalent to Band 2 to Band 3. The vast majority of the politicians beneath them are earning salaries on par with thousands of other public servants who are in the lower bands.

If anything they're on incomes very much in line with public servant pay scales.

My own government workplace of around 90 people consists of around 90% of staff earning between 90K to 500K.

Like i said, you only become a politician for the love of it, or because you're such a lemon and are unlikely to earn that income outside of politics, ie. dud union officials and industrial lawyers.

 

[MarkB]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Public_Service

Tigger, note that those pay scales are for 2011, so you could easily add another 10 to 15% onto those figures.

See: Remuneration Tribunal - Base Salary for MPs and Senators

A member of parliament shall be paid a base salary of $195,130 per annum.
(NB - that excludes any allowances)

So, in Canberra, it would be more than (most) EL2's (not saying that there aren't some EL2's in the low 200's) - but basically the only people earning more than your bog-standard-just-there-to-make-up-the-numbers-and-kiss-a-few-babies MP or Senator are those in the SES or above.

It might be "many" in absolute terms (because the APS is now pretty big), but in relative terms not that many (Unless the pyramid has been flipped on its head completely, SES staff would still be in the minority).

The last of the APS I worked in had maybe 6 SES (a Band 2, and 4 or 5 Band 1's) staff to about 100 or so minions.

 

[weg]

See: Remuneration Tribunal - Base Salary for MPs and Senators

A member of parliament shall be paid a base salary of $195,130 per annum.
(NB - that excludes any allowances)

So, in Canberra, it would be more than (most) EL2's (not saying that there aren't some EL2's in the low 200's) - but basically the only people earning more than your bog-standard-just-there-to-make-up-the-numbers-and-kiss-a-few-babies MP or Senator are those in the SES or above.

My comparison was with state politicians.

The highest position is Newman's who is being paid well below that of Departmental Head - the DH income being more in line with that of Abbott's salary.

 

[MarkB]

My comparison was with state politicians.

The highest position is Newman's who is being paid well below that of Departmental Head - the DH income being more in line with that of Abbott's salary.

You're mixing apples and oranges.

The salaries of the APS vs what state politicians earn.

Doesn't work that way. Different beasts altogether.

In a like for like comparison - politicians in Canberra earn more than everyone else bar those who are in the Senior Executive Service.

 

[dan c]

No issue with what a politician earns. But, to backdate a large pay rise while telling public sector workers they take a pay cut or lose their jobs doesn't really endear politicians to that many people.

The pay freeze was sound financial management. The large pay rise isn't.

Exactly, and that's the point people are missing here.

It's not about politician's pay rises or salaries per se, it's about a significant pay rise while the very same government is ordering pay freezes and job cuts for others.

 

[weg]

You're mixing apples and oranges.

The salaries of the APS vs what state politicians earn.

Doesn't work that way. Different beasts altogether.

In a like for like comparison - politicians in Canberra earn more than everyone else bar those who are in the Senior Executive Service.

I am aware of that but i also emphasised that they earned less than their federal counterparts.

So not the best example in trying to highlight to Tigger that Newman's income, as the highest position in QLD politics, is not exhorbitant and that other politicians don't necessarily make anywhere near what he does.

 

[Tigger]

I can't comment on the APS and their 'bands', except that I have a friend in the APS who earns about 30% more than she would here in Qld. Not too many PS in Qld earn close to 100,000 a year. Our politicians do very well in comparison.

 

[MarkB]

I have a friend in the APS who earns about 30% more than she would here in Qld.

Sure, but -

1. It could be argued that it is the trade off for leaving your home state and moving to Canberra.

2. Organisations like the Treasury and PM&C want the best staff they can get and they are prepared to pay for them (I suspect that rubs off a little on other departments who don't want to be left behind)

3. Its Canberra (Ivory tower / normal rules don't apply)

 

[Tigger]

Backbenchers in Qld were earning $133,804 in 2011.

 

[MarkB]

Not too many PS in Qld earn close to 100,000 a year. Our politicians do very well in comparison.

Backbenchers in Qld were earning $133,804 in 2011.

So it seems.

Pay peanuts and get monkeys.

Pay decent money and still get monkeys.