Rates, yields, investment cycle and VIC market

Are you saying the Stockland are incorrect and misleading the market :confused:

Nope, just that there's always reasons not to buy houses. If even I can make a dollar out of it, it can't be that hard.

Are you saying Stockland is a proxy for the performance of the entire residential property market?
 
So in short the clock exists but is broken.

It can only tell the time now, not the future.

Regards Peter

A clock can ONLY ever tell the current time. We must use all available data and feedback to form our own consensus on where it will go in the future...right?

What is the old disclaimer....Past indications of performance is not an indication of future returns...
 
Nope, just that there's always reasons not to buy houses. If even I can make a dollar out of it, it can't be that hard.

Are you saying Stockland is a proxy for the performance of the entire residential property market?

The proxy for the general performance of the Victorian market is here:
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/12/victorian-transfers-mortgages-decelerate/

If you think those graphs look healthy or can gleam any sign of a general improvement of conditions via the Stockland or MB links you are better than me ;)
 
I personally think that vic has either hit bottom now or has a little bit to fall, say 4 to 6 o'clock , in hindsight, now would be a good time to get into my area, I'd rather catch the falling knife at 5 to 6 o'clock

Victoria is now officially in recession, having experienced at least two consecutive quarters of negative growth. What do you see looking forward that is going to reverse the falling trend? I can see it getting much worse. With low unemployment and falling rates what is it going to take to actually get the state cranking again :confused: What happens is unemployment starts ratcheting up?
 
A clock can ONLY ever tell the current time. We must use all available data and feedback to form our own consensus on where it will go in the future...right?

What is the old disclaimer....Past indications of performance is not an indication of future returns...

Yes, on the past "property spruikers" would say look it is 5 o clock and 7 o clock is a time to buy so GET IN NOW. LOL Peter
 
Victoria is now officially in recession, having experienced at least two consecutive quarters of negative growth. What do you see looking forward that is going to reverse the falling trend? I can see it getting much worse. With low unemployment and falling rates what is it going to take to actually get the state cranking again :confused: What happens is unemployment starts ratcheting up?

WOW so we VIC are officially in recession. I wonder how the Media and our Political Masters will spin it?

And I wonder how many other states are to join us?

Plenty of room for all, hello Tassie, SA or even NSW.

Peter 14.7
 
Victoria is now officially in recession, having experienced at least two consecutive quarters of negative growth. What do you see looking forward that is going to reverse the falling trend? I can see it getting much worse. With low unemployment and falling rates what is it going to take to actually get the state cranking again :confused: What happens is unemployment starts ratcheting up?

Trippy,

the sentiment is certainly not bullish so a perceived recession is what the retailers are feeling.

Do you have a link please that confirms the two negative quarters of growth?
 
WOW so we VIC are officially in recession. I wonder how the Media and our Political Masters will spin it?

And I wonder how many other states are to join us?

Plenty of room for all, hello Tassie, SA or even NSW.

Peter 14.7

Tassie is there already..see the post below...
 
Trippy,

the sentiment is certainly not bullish so a perceived recession is what the retailers are feeling.

Do you have a link please that confirms the two negative quarters of growth?

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/12/gdp-here-comes-the-income-shock/

From the article:

Western Australia drove the increase in GDP, with state final demand rising by 2.3% over the quarter. New South Wales (+0.1%) and the ACT (+0.6%) also managed moderate growth. By contrast, state final demand fell in Victoria (-0.2%), Queensland (-1.6%), South Australia (-3.2%), Tasmania (-1.5%) and the Northern Territory (-2.9%). Victoria and Tasmania are now officially in recession, with both states experiencing at least two consecutive quarters of negative growth.

At 0.2% drop in Victoria it is marginal, but the question remains what is going to turn it around (even from this small drop). Qld, Tas, SA and NT are hurting. WA is once again our savior!!
 
Victoria is now officially in recession, having experienced at least two consecutive quarters of negative growth. What do you see looking forward that is going to reverse the falling trend? I can see it getting much worse. With low unemployment and falling rates what is it going to take to actually get the state cranking again :confused: What happens is unemployment starts ratcheting up?

I'm not saying I'm right,
I'm just going by my gut and based on general factors across the board
For all we know we might still be at 2 o'clock

I'm leaning more towards 'there is still a way to fall"

As rate cuts are good, unemployment has risen, I don't really see any huge positives in the short to medium term however, I think retail might start picking up within 2 years, and by picking up, meaning, going from terrible to average, not customers queuing up in front of myer, I see unemployment to stay at a concerning level for a while now, and hopefully with more rate cuts, if any, that will be the first step to a recovery


Just my opinion
 
Victoria is now officially in recession, having experienced at least two consecutive quarters of negative growth. What do you see looking forward that is going to reverse the falling trend? I can see it getting much worse. With low unemployment and falling rates what is it going to take to actually get the state cranking again :confused: What happens is unemployment starts ratcheting up?
I've thought Vic has been in recession for at least a year already - based on what I see and hear on the ground - not in the media.
 
London property is like gold. There's a limited supply, it's considered a hedge against inflation, and is perceived as safe.

As such its price has become somewhat divorced from the fundamentals. In fact, even priced in US Dollars it's above the levels seen in 2007.
 
People have been saying that about nsw & qld for a while but clock hasn't ticked much :)

Yes, you are right, but we cannot generalize with property per state, in the past we perhaps could. An interesting read is, "Mastering the Australian Housing Market" by John Lindeman. I attended one of his presentations and he was great!
He explains how the housing market works (since 1901 to 2012 present). He mentions Housing markets theories (the generalization of property market cycle, the long term 8% growth). Example, of ABS data was for around 100 years representing around 8% growth but (30 years 3%, 10 years -3%, 10 years 12%, 43 years 9%, 4 years 2%). So some luck has to play on our part when the growth occurred. Gave example of Aguarelle North Sydney suburb sale in 2003 at $1.45K, sold in 2012 at $1.25K. This is 14% loss, real loss 50% if we add inflation.
I do not wish to scare you here, but just to make you realize property is trading to no growth so being picky/selective/knowledgeable is the key.
Example since 2007 to 2012: Kurrajong fell in value, Homebush rose 40%, Sydney not changed since 2007, so you see there are suburbs that may perform while others don't. IMO, times have changed where we no longer can generalize about drivers of property but we need to rather specialize.
He mentioned lagging indicators (looking at median price), and misleading indicators (time on market, vendor discounting, rental yields - e.g. yields could be rising due to property prices falling not just new jobs being created - so we need to look at the cause and effect, different cause produces different effect on rental yield).
Leading indicators (Sales trends, for potential buyers and Listing trends). Quickstats and YIP or API magazines he used to predict distressed sales in suburbs and compared 1 years listings of sellers to buyers to see if they were coming down.
It was quite analytical and fast paced but it was really informative...
Perhaps the book above will help?:)
I haven't bought it yet, but I plan to!
 
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