RBA's Generational Backlash

[Glenn]

Hi All,

Based on the Reserve Bank's comments last week, I would like to officially start the Generational Backlash!

Come on you old buggers, start gifting us some of your wealth or you will be living in the worst "old people's" home you could imagine.......50k per year without tax/pension implications you know (me thinks).

Glenn

 

[Cosmo]

Hi Glenn,

Don’t worry about it. All they’ll have to do is bring in death duties again and bingo!

 

[Peter Parker]

Nah - I don't want anyone's money gifts - I want to make it all myself!

But I'm not excited about picking up nursing home fees and health costs of a generation that enjoyed free uni education!

To pay for it I support:

1. Capital Gains tax to apply on sale of PPOR
2. Pensions Assets test not to exclude PPOR (but maybe raise limit a bit)
3. Retrospective HECS on all those who studied between 1973 and 1987 (only kidding!)
4. Some form of death duties (these are not a disincentive to work unlike other taxes)

There needs to be improvement in the inequality between young and old in areas such as:

1. Parity between seniors and low income working people in areas like pharmaceuticals and health (at the moment seniors get it good and they've paid less tax than us to earn it).
2. Better public transport in outer suburbs where young families typically live. Also better urban design so people need drive less.
3. Get rid of 'entitlement' welfare mentality which is a sort of 'dole bludger mentality' amongst the retired (paradoxically old people sometimes use these disparaging comments against the young).
4. Proceeds from govt privatisation programs must be used to reduce debt rather than find current expenditure

Though we really can't be too mean in all this as we'll also be old one day! And we should be kind to our kids as they will determine what happens to you when you get old!

Related reading: NATSEM/AMP report on Gen-X. Referred to in another post today.

Regards, Peter

 

[Aceyducey]

Originally posted by Spiderman
But I'm not excited about picking up nursing home fees and health costs of a generation that enjoyed free uni education!

Why not apply the Logan's Run Asset Test (LRAT)

If you're over age X you get killed & recycled.

Would cut health costs & pension bills dramatically.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

Originally posted by Aceyducey
Why not apply the Logan's Run Asset Test (LRAT)

If you're over age X you get killed & recycled.

Would cut health costs & pension bills dramatically.

Great idea Aceyducey! Has your crystal gone out yet?

 

[geoffw]

Originally posted by Spiderman
But I'm not excited about picking up nursing home fees and health costs of a generation that enjoyed free uni education!

I think the really "free" years were quite limited.

There used to be "Commonwealth scolarships" based on performance in a special academic test, universally available.

Aside from that, I thought the only real "non-fee" years were in the Whitlam era. But I may be wrong.

Whitlam was voted in during the week after my final HSC exam in 1972. And was fired during one of my final university exams in 1975.

Don't forget though, that in order to qualify for this "free" education, we lived with the very real possibility (before Whitlam gained power) of being called up for Vietnam.

 

[Aceyducey]

Originally posted by PT_Bear
Great idea Aceyducey! Has your crystal gone out yet?

I'm a GenXer

No worries yet.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[Peter Parker]

Hi Geoff - 'free' education came in during the Whitlam era and ended around 1987.

At that time they brought in an up-front tertiary administration charge of about $250.

This only lasted a year or two and then they brought in HECS. Though the amount involved was higher, arguably this was more equitable as it did not involve an up-front payment and was only payable once your income exceeded a certain amount.

Peter

 

[Macca]

When I left school, if you couldn't pay for your Uni course up front , you didn't go, unless you were EXCEPTIONALLY clever and got a scholarship.

Maybe they could set it up now so that everyone pays for the first year, if you pass, you go on with more generous HECS terms.

This would weed out those who go to Uni because they don't want to work. By clearing out the time wasters, the keen students could be helped more.

What do you think?

 

[jahn]

Spiderman
One of the 'funny ' parts of your number 3 points -

"3. Get rid of 'entitlement' welfare mentality which is a sort of 'dole bludger mentality' amongst the retired (paradoxically old people sometimes use these disparaging comments against the young)."

is that large numbers of those old people worked their entire bloody lives paying taxes, and were told their rewards would be in the way of retirement benefits, and now they look at younger, now generation people getting paid to do nothing while they are looking at getting nothing much from the Gov in comparison.

I do however agree totally that the mentality of getting somethng for nothing is absurd at any age, or station in life.
Wouldn't it be good to be able to sort out the real dole bludgers from the legitimate hard done by/ unemployable, etc, who really do need the support.

BTW - " (at the moment seniors get it good and they've paid less tax than us to earn it). "
Are you kidding. The majority of 'older people' did not get free uni, as a matter of fact, could not afford the time out of work to further their education, worked from a very early age, and had no tax benefits such as negative gearing to reduce their lifelong contribution to the tax system.

"There needs to be improvement in the inequality between young and old in areas such as: "

Compassion
Awareness
Apprecation
Respect
Consideration

jahn

 

[LucasK]

Well today we have 50% full-fee students (in law), increase in HECS (potential), decrease in university amenities, increased costs, and so forth. Not to mention uni equipment always breaking down.

Lucky entrepreneurship is also on the rise to counter this. So support young entrepreneurs. Anyone want to send me $100 through paypal to support Australia's entrepreneurs? 100% of proceeds will be used to support entrepreneurship, I promise!

 

[Peter Parker]

Jahn wrote:

'is that large numbers of those old people worked their entire bloody lives paying taxes, and were told their rewards would be in the way of retirement benefits'

But the taxes they paid in the 50s were proportionally lower than today's workers pay now.

And what about how today's older people (when they were working) treated their parents through the tax/welfare system?

In the 1950s age pensions were meager and lower than today. There was also an extremely severe assets test in force. Other concessions weren't as numerous as now.

'and now they look at younger, now generation people getting paid to do nothing while they are looking at getting nothing much from the Gov in comparison.'

I would not describe current pensioner benefits as 'nothing much'.

Sure the age pension is lowish, but if you add all the concessions and fringe benefits you can live simply but well if you own your home and live in an area with good public transport. Did you know that for instance that if you live the eastern parts of Sydney you can get all day unlimited travel for $1.10? The equivalent ticket for wage earners is $10 or more. There are also numerous tax concessions and health benefits as well.

Note that today's pensioners had the benefit of decades full employment and lower interest rates, which many baby boomers missed out on. Also when these people had positions of authority in the 1970s and 80s, federal governments consistently ran deficits (apart from a few years in the late 80s). The result of these deficits is government debt and higher taxes than necessary to repay it.

'young people doing nothing'

that no doubt happens for some but unemployment activity tests are tougher today than in the 70s and 80s.

Thus the old people of which you speak did pay taxes, but these were lower than they are today. Yet today some want more than they gave their parents. And betcha they're the same people who ring up talkback radio whinging about the young people of today!

http://www.crikey.com.au/politics/2003/11/20-0002.html
has a very good summary of intergenerational equity issues.

Peter

 

[jahn]

Spiderman
There's not mch you can surprise me with about pensions and taxes. I'm 57 and my father is 87. He left school and got a professional fishermans license at the age of 11 (Special circumstances at the time. He was one of 10, and times were tough, and not too many gov. handouts )
Don't get too involved with then, and now. -
Everything is relevant for the time. You can compare the fact that I used to be able to buy a hamburger for 2 shillings, and now its whatever. The fact remains that then it was tough, now for some its tough. Just different times, different stresses.
Also different Goverments. (I believe when the budget was in deficit back then, a labour gov was in charge, whatever. The individual people back then did not cause the -

"Also when these people had positions of authority in the 1970s and 80s, federal governments consistently ran deficits (apart from a few years in the late 80s). The result of these deficits is government debt and higher taxes than necessary to repay it. "

There used to be statistics that showed averages were, for 5 people, 3 were working and their income supported 2 others. I believe that figure is now at about 2 working, supporting 3, and getting worse.
It seems also, that in the future, times we are told, will get tougher, due to ageing population, increased medical needs, etc.
One thing I do know is this. No amount of name calling, or blaming, young or old, will improve the lot of any one.

I have no idea what you are getting at with this quote -

"And what about how today's older people (when they were working) treated their parents through the tax/welfare system? "

BTW Would you be happy to travel around Sydney every day for only $1.10 if you had to pay rent in Sydney and had no job because your employer went broke, spent all your work/holiday/retirement benefits, and now couldn't get a job because people categorised you as being too old, regardless of your experiene, or qualifications. ?
I wont be happy with the current pension, but with some luck (and Planning) we won't need it

jahn

 

[Aceyducey]

Whether they were the 'good' old days or the 'bad' old days really depends on where you stood then & where you stand now.

And it doesn't make a bit of difference to what we have to take into account in the present.

Learn from the past but dream for the future - that's where we all have to live.

Call me a realist, but TODAY is always the best day of my life - because I can influence it!

Cheers,

Aceyducey