Redfern update

Right on Investor. It hasnt been rubber stamped yet. There will be a stigma around Everleigh St for a long time yet and the yields are terrible as with all inner city properties. Theres going to be challenges from the heritage, welfare and aboriginal political groups, not to mention pensioner and disabled lobbies...it will go on & on.

But if people want to buy in Redfern now, go right ahead. You'll either lose daddys farm or make a motza, but its not investing its speculating.
 
Hi All

Such negativity. :confused:

If you taking a long term view that is 5 to 15 years this is good news worth considering.

Yes, it is too early yet because it is all planning stage, but I don’t fear the various political lobbies. Once the Gov says "yes we are going to do it" that will be good enough for me.

WHY
The State has the planning power and does use it to develop what they want when:

1. It is in the best interests of Sydney and
2. It makes a lot of money.

Examples: Walsh Bay & Woolloomooloo Wharfs (heritage) Eastern Distributor (green open space taken from Moore Park) Cit West Link & Cross City Tunnel (exhaust stacks in residential areas).

THE MANDATE TO ACT
I think I said on SS at the time of the Riot that this was blessing in disguise for the Gov. It meant everyone saw Redfern as a major problem needing a major solution.

So I don’t think many of the general public will be too concerned when the locals affected start protesting. Why you be on the streets fighting for their rights?

ABORIGINAL HOUSING
I am genuinely concerned about the plight of any kid growing up in the Block. Being a NO GO the worst element hangs out free from Police intervention. Drugs, Alcohol are part of the social fabric, not sport or getting a job. The local Leaders know this and want change.

Presently the Aboriginal Housing Corp has only a few homes of use with the vast majority abandoned. Their leaders know the solution is new units and have asked for that. To quote the paper

……..will need to sell some of its property to become viable again, they say. Apart from its holdings around the Block, it owns 44 properties in other parts of the state, valued at $17.3 million. Many of them are derelict or have been demolished.
The company could be wound up and does not have the financial and property management skills to manage these assets, says an another audit, conducted in the middle of this year.
The Aboriginal Housing Company has failed to collect rent consistently, had to be bailed out at a $900,000 cost to the Aboriginal Housing Office - a statutory authority which instigated urgent health and safety repairs for 43 properties - and also owes the Tax Office $238,000, the documents reveal.
They are a private company which could lose the block anyhow. This is very unlikely to happen before a compromise is found.

THE POTENTIAL

Likewow, with all due respect, from your comments you must not know Redfern very well and the massive potential it has.

Property
Only three blocks from the Station (scene of the Riot) is Pitt St. Here $1M will get you a very large terrace here but no change. Virtually most of the property East of the Station is seen as a desirable place to live close to the city. West is the No Go. South West is Erskinville which is already being revamped. Property costs almost Surry Hills/ Darlinghurst Prices ($500K +) unless it has a serve bad point. But they are bigger and have more land usually. Many families target Redfern for these reasons.

Retail & Business
Directly South is the massive Everleigh St Train Yards which has already had huge investment re Bio Tech and IT industries from Gov. It is one of the last undeveloped Gov lands in the inner City. Planning already calls for another station on the line to serve potential growth. It will be a mini suburb.

Waterloo (next door and right in the Housing part being proposed to go) has a rapidly growing pocket of very, very up market Traders swerving the Easter Suburbs Set. Try “Country Trader” where a couch is $10k. Or Danks Street Depot is group of architects and artists where at the café a Truffle Oil Eggs on Sourdough costs $14 but only if you can get a table! A lot of Architects and Designer Homewares are moving in or already there being close to the city but providing heaps of funky warehouse spaces to be creative.

Even close to the Station where once there were empty shops now there are delis, restaurants, cafes, etc...Yes people are more aware of security re handbags and stuff but that’s Sydney overall. People still eat al fresco, use the Station, use the Banks.

The Station is the Key
Despite the present issues, trains are the easiest and cheapest way to get around when you work in the CBD. In the CBD you have the Loop and Central. North is North Sydney (ignoring Milsons Point) and South is Redfern Station.

What is so good about that you may ask?

Like North Sydney ALL trains stop at Redfern including express. So even if your workers come from Campbelltown or Parrammatta they can get off here. This is vital to CBD employers.

Redfern is presently an old classic station. North Sydney which has a large shopping and commercial centre over it surrounded by business high rise. There is no reason Redfern could not become similar with correct planning.

Hard to believe you say? Consider this. 10 years ago Central Station was a rundown backwater for business. Then the Gov said agencies would relocate from the CBD to central and they did. Light Rail went it. Railway Square was revamped. Now it is surrounded by new office towers, cafes, and hotels, with the huge Broadway Brewery Redevelopment Site, SIT, ABC and UTS only 500m away.

SUMMARY
I agree we are talking long term but for anyone looking to get CG it is worth watching. If anything already prices reflect the potential outlined above. No reward ever came nil risk.

Regards, Peter 147
 
Peter,

Thats a great post and I am familiar with Redfern, ive benn a Bunnies supporter most of my life. I was born and lived in Sydney till recently moving up the coast.

A few points;

Id say Green square is a ghetto of the future. Waterloo/Alexandria is still industrial/commercial with semis pounding the main arteries and lots of back streets, its a nightmare. Regent St is a joke and has hardly changed in 20 years. Cleveland has gotta be one of the busiest, ugliest roads in Australia.

The main drag of Redfern (Redfern St?) looked pretty unhealthy last time i saw it and apparently hasnt changed much with lots of vacant shops, especially the station end. And around Eveleigh St/Darlington, well the less said the better and thats what this whole thing is about.

I stand by my post but agree with you it will take a long long time for gentrification of the worse parts of Redfern, min 10 years id say.
 
Hi Likewow

I eat my words, you’re a local. :)

I will insert today’s "leak" from the SMH which I read after I wrote my rant. As usual highlight IMO the important bits in bold or comment.

It is spookily similar. I guess once in Gov Proper always in Gov Prop. :eek:

Some of the proposals such as $200M tunnels are hard to see getting up but they could be strategy anyhow. Through in a few read herrings.

Re the Bunnies I notice no support for George Piggins Stadium Redevelopment Deal. This could be the reason.

Overall it seems one thig is certain, the Waterloo-Redfern Authority is going to be all powerful.

Clover Moore (independent mayor of Sydney) may have won the battle ( mayor for Council) but lost the War ( planning powers being stripped). Less planning powers being mayor is pretty ineffective stuff on the grand scale.

Peter 147

Grand plan to transform suburbs into a new North Sydney
By Debra Jopson and Gerard Ryle
November 29, 2004

Redfern is to become the new North Sydney to take pressure off an overcrowded CBD, according to the NSW Government's grand plan for the area.

Growth of office space to the north has stalled because this area is also considered a desirable place to live,

says a strategy paper by the Government's consultants, Cox Richardson, produced for Cabinet earlier this year.

But as Sydney is poised to become "a key world city serving the Asia Pacific region", its commercial hub needs to expand into Redfern, says the paper.

"Redfern could emerge as an office/commercial centre in the same manner as North Sydney became a northern employment satellite of the Sydney CBD from the 1950s," it says.

"Sydney is a comparatively small CBD in terms of area and whilst height of buildings can add floor space, to avoid congestion, [a] major CBD needs to expand horizontally as well as vertically," the paper says.

This has happened in London, Paris, New York and Shanghai, the consultants say.

A great advantage of the Redfern, Eveleigh and Darlington area is that about one-third of the land is in Government hands, the consultants say.

Other documents, dated October 2004, argue new businesses are needed to regenerate an area which has declined and is now a weak link in the chain of commercial hubs stretching from Ryde to Botany Bay which link Sydney into the global economy.

One paper says the Redfern, Eveleigh and Darlington area is strategically placed within the metropolitan area, being at the heart of the Sydney economic crescent, which stretches from Macquarie University to Sydney Airport.

Despite being close to the CBD, three of Sydney's leading universities are easily reached by train or road, there are only 2300 jobs within a 500 metre radius of Redfern station.

"This is an underutilisation of government infrastructure, which is reflected by the decline in trade in the area surrounding the station," the document says.

The area is in a particularly good position to cash in on the "knowledge economy" because it is in "Australia's global city". But social dislocation is preventing this, it says.

The documents say the population of the area has dropped to 20,000 from 50,482 in 1921. It stood at 42,817 just after World War II.

"The decline in population has meant that the economic sustainability of the area has also declined," the papers say.

Waterloo is rated as the fifth poorest out of Sydney's 526 suburbs, the future Minister for Redfern-Waterloo, Frank Sartor, said recently when introducing a Bill establishing a new authority to overhaul the area.

The new authority would promote the social and economic development of the community by taking charge of prime Government assets including the Australian Technology Park, the Redfern railway station, the Rachel Forster Hospital and Redfern Public School.
 
If the large public housing towers (including Poet's Corner in Young Street East Redfern) are demolished I'll be a happy chappy.

Maybe I should clean up the front yard of my IP and fix the front wall (which is about to collapse onto the footpath). I'd hate my low rent IP to be compulsorily acquired.

Seriously, this could prove very good news for those with IP's in Redfern.

Ajax


P.S. I see that Frank Sator has been appointed the State Minister for Redfern-Waterloo. How many other suburbs boast their own State Minister?
 
Ajax said:
Ajax

P.S. I see that Frank Sator has been appointed the State Minister for Redfern-Waterloo. How many other suburbs boast their own State Minister?
Click to expand...

One.

Clover has been gypped. Sartor obviously stills wants to be Mayor.

But seriously this is good politics.

Peter 147
 
Still a long way to go yet....we'll probably see what the courts think of the division of planning power between state & councils.....and what ALL the other councils in NSW think about the idea of the State Government coming in & creating special planning zones!

I reckon the concept is largely good, but there will be scaling back for more greenspace & the inevitable compromises in planning.

At the end of the day I feel that the results will be good for Sydney & the locals...

BUT it will take so long to implement & develop that it's unlikely to seriously help the State Government's short-term budget crisis.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Agree Peter.

If I was Clover Moore I'd be pretty p*ssed off. I've never been a great follower of politics but I do recall the contest for the office of Sydney Lord Mayor.

I see that the new Redfern-Waterloo authority will have wide ranging powers and covers a very large area.

http://www.redfernwaterloo.nsw.gov.au/oldsite/images/redwataauthority3.jpg

There may be concerns for residents/investors especially near the block and the train station-i.e. if the $200m in road tunnels goes ahead. From the SMH article "The preferred northbound two-lane tunnel would divert traffic from Gibbons Street, go under Rosehill Street and part of the Block before emerging 580 metres later on the corner of Dangar Place and Abercrombie Street. It would have a likely speed limit of 70kmh and require an emissions stack. The second tunnel would start at Regent Street near mortuary rail station and end 480 metres further along near the intersection of Boundary Street." (and I presume Cleveland Street) "It would not need a stack but would still have fans."

Ajax
 
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Peter 147 said:
Hi Likewow

I eat my words, you’re a local. :)

I will insert today’s "leak" from the SMH which I read after I wrote my rant. As usual highlight IMO the important bits in bold or comment.

It is spookily similar. I guess once in Gov Proper always in Gov Prop. :eek:

Some of the proposals such as $200M tunnels are hard to see getting up but they could be strategy anyhow. Through in a few read herrings.

Re the Bunnies I notice no support for George Piggins Stadium Redevelopment Deal. This could be the reason.

Overall it seems one thig is certain, the Waterloo-Redfern Authority is going to be all powerful.

Clover Moore (independent mayor of Sydney) may have won the battle ( mayor for Council) but lost the War ( planning powers being stripped). Less planning powers being mayor is pretty ineffective stuff on the grand scale.

Peter 147


[/I]
Click to expand...

Peter

Im not from Redfern but not too far from there. I agree, the area will be gentrified but it will take a lot longer than many think. Taking into account the long time frame, would not be suitable for investors trying to benefit and better opportunities elsewhere imo.

I think Georges' grand plan for Redfern Oval was never going to have legs. He was doing a deal with developers and the oval is on council land and has parks and gardens adjacent (as you would know) and the council dont want to turn it into a commercial/stadium district as per Georges deal with developers including giving them the existing club and land to develop.

I see they might be moving to North Sydney Oval next year for home games :eek: They save lots of money from not playing at the SFS but its just plain wierd. In George we trust! :)

btw: congrtas on the mod appointment, take it easy on me :D
 
glad to see this thread has found new life.

great posts and redfern is a suburb that i will continue to monitor closely, especially now that we have purchased in nearby surry hills.

cheers,

julie
 
HI Alphina

What & where did you purchase?

Many would be interested in the details after your long look. If you dont mind.

Still a long way to go re Redfern but I belive the Gov. are serious. $5BN serious!

Peter 147
 
I spoke with a real estate agent this morning with properties for sale on the edge of Redfern. His vendors have been asking should we sell now or wait for the development.

It is planned to take up to 10 years-however it will be interesting to see how today's market is affected by these proposals.

According to the Australian today p.35 "The Redfern-Waterloo Authority bill is expected to be introduced to the NSW Legislative Council next Tuesday, in the last week of parliamentary sittings for the year".


Ajax
 
Some pretty heavy stuff for the locals...I am a community worker in Redfern (don't live here though) spend most of my week with public housing tenants, kooris etc, and they are not happy frank.
:mad:

community meeting at waterloo green (cnr of george and phillip sts) on monday 6th at 10am if anyone is interested.
 
Hi All

I heard today froma source in NSW gov. that Agents have been swamped with enquiry re Redfern since the news broke.

FYI

Peter 147
 
knightm said:
Some pretty heavy stuff for the locals...I am a community worker in Redfern (don't live here though) spend most of my week with public housing tenants, kooris etc, and they are not happy frank.
:mad:

community meeting at waterloo green (cnr of george and phillip sts) on monday 6th at 10am if anyone is interested.
Click to expand...
Hi Knightm

Tell your locals to look at the City West Housing experience. Overall they can and will benefit.

FYI

Similar to Redfern both the State Gov and Fed Gov earmarked Ultimo and Pyrmont for redevelopment from disused sugar refinery area / city backwater to new urban metropolis.

The area had dropped from housing 30,000 to around 8,000. The homes were run down, services poor, contamination, no foreshore parks and little jobs available locally. Derelict housing was surrounded by disused factories.

They master planned the area top to bottom. Set high density developments. Designed for parks, walkways and transport. They put in access to the foreshore with playgrounds, BBQ’s and wharfs. They built a large community / sports centre and Council is about to build an Aquatic Centre. They widened footpaths and planted trees encouraging cafes and shops to move in. They even forced design rules as to lighting and street furniture to ensure a cohesive approach.

Developers who took advantage of this opportunity had to pay for it. They were forced to re-surface old lanes and curb in granite. They had to use European Lighting and provide shelters and seating for the public. They were also forced to provide section 94 contributions (cash) for Affordable Housing. More about this later.

This was about 10 years ago.

Now Ultimo and Pyrmont area is vibrant. The resulting developments are award wining. Jobs have come in the area of Media and the Casino. Channel 10 and Foxtel are locals for example. The light rail provides public transport as does extended bus routes. Parks are green and often include playgrounds. Streets are new and you have now have shops such as video rental, 7/11s, takeaway food, Laundromats etc. Due to the growth the Broadway Shopping Centre was encouraged thereby providing three supermarkets with parking where their was once none.

It is slowly but surely becoming a great place to live. Now as in all massive exercises some mistakes were made. The uniform planning controls were too uniform and stifled variation in form. The light rail route is long winded and the cost not super cheap for a single use. The lack of initial rental demand encouraged serviced apartments which did not add to the community. Some of the parks were over designed. Overall the gains well out weigh the losses.

In all this a special Company called City West Housing (CWH)was set up to mange the contributions and given $50M in kick start funds. The master plan recognized that as the area was renovated the long term renter locals on low to nil income would be forced out of their run down homes. So CWH was set up to provide affordable housing.

Affordable housing is very different to welfare housing. Based on proven overseas models they rent to all types including the general public. CWH design, build and own their own stock and manage their own maintenance with a team of only 7. I was privileged to be part of the team for 2 years during a boom period. To be eligible you had to have a local connection, which in Redfern would be Koori or long term public housing or work in the local area. Only locals could apply.

To get reduced rent you had to be on a low income, in need and not own other property or means to provide for yourself ( shares, etc.). Housing is mostly unit but state of the art with dual aspect, playgrounds, low energy use, award wining design by some of the best Architects in Australia. CWH won a number of awards for design.

I knew a young family of an apprentice plumber and wife with three children paying $100 a week for a 4 bedroom terrace fully renovated. Market rent would have been $500. Single mums renting two beds units for $80 a week. Elderly locals having a home with dignity. Also the general public paying then $250 a week for a one bed unit.

And it all worked!

The Kids who are growing up in these complexes have a real world view not a social welfare world view. They see their neighbor put on a suit and go to work in the City each morning. Residents have jobs, massive pride in their homes and always pay on time. As residents get on their feet and earn more money they pay more rent but always very reasonable and always they can stay. Some have moved out as they buy their own homes or move away but it is an empowering and not depressive environment.

Redfern is similar and will only benefit from the plans if they come to pass. The only resident who have something to fear are those who are dishonest and/or bludging off the system.

City West Housing has a website is you interested to find more.

Regards, Peter 147
 
Thanks Peter 147

I know that there are also other (here and overseas) examples of revamps that have worked. I was not implying that any revamp is a bad thing. What concerns me is that the current bill before legislation will give sartor wide ranging powers to make all kinds of planning decisions with people's homes and no consultation. I'm all for good architecture - but if 10000 people dont want something then should it be forced on them??? I'm a realist and I know that what will be will be, but the stakes are high at the moment for many of my clients.

To bring it back to investing - I guess its related to a personal philosohpy whereby I dont like buying places that are tenanted, kicking out the tenants to reno it and rent to new upper income earners. I am happier buying from owner occs or negotiating a phased deal with the current tenant so they aren't just out on their ear.

What to other people think?
 
Also p147

"The only resident who have something to fear are those who are dishonest and/or bludging off the system."

or perhaps the 70 yr olds who have been in the same unit for 40yrs, have been gardening in the local community garded for the last 10yrs and may be forced out to a new building in a new area with new neighbours???

not trying to sound pessimistic, but when you know the people I guess its different.

PS thanks for the web advice I will look at their site.

regards
 
knightm said:
Also p147

"The only resident who have something to fear are those who are dishonest and/or bludging off the system."

or perhaps the 70 yr olds who have been in the same unit for 40yrs, have been gardening in the local community garded for the last 10yrs and may be forced out to a new building in a new area with new neighbours???

not trying to sound pessimistic, but when you know the people I guess its different.

PS thanks for the web advice I will look at their site.

regards
Click to expand...

Hi Knightm

DISADVANTAGED RESIDENTS
The resident you describe has been on welfare for 40 years. There I assume he or she is disabled, injured, intellecturally challenged, or other such thing and therefore deserves to be protected and cared for in a fair society that Australia is.

I , like you, accept some persons simply find life itself a challenge. They fear change and require stablity. It will be a challenging time for these people. :(

But these people are also the ones prone to being mugged by crims, given run down accomodation, and feel lonely in a high rise surrounded by little activity and community.

POWER
The power given is necessary to cut the red tape and burocracy that can kill these projects. All they say, you cannot please all the people all the time.

But if 100,00 protest then the Gov will notice.

WHY THE POWER
Grand vision mean some pain. Look at the Olympic site. Disused contaminated site. A lot of residents didnt want the ground touched or the influx of traffic or the light at night. And the frogs and such needed protection. Numerous COuncils and authority to coordinate.

Instead they formed OCA Olympic Coordination Authority. All powerful so they got the job done.

And what about the outcry when they moved the Showgrounds and leased / sold it for Fox Studios. Traditon they cried. People forget how rundown the old showrounds where and that they had no train link. Now it is state of the art and in the centre of Sydney Population not on the edge.

WHilst Fox Studios itself had brought $M's on dollars in film works to Sydney and Australia, Matrix, Mission Impossible, Star Wars, etc.. Jobs in a clean and growing industry.

GENTRIFICATION
THE dual edged sword. It help some and hurts others. Again a CWH structure will protect the residents interests. Despite the high rise is it very undeveloped land and a policing nightmare.

As I understand they propose to add housing not take and intergrate existing residnts within. I know a lot will want them out but that will be too difficult and not necessary imho. That thier best defence.

Peter 147
 
I don't know enough about community politics to know the ins and outs, but I did bump into an interesting model.

In the western Sydney suburbs of Lakema and Wiley Park, the councils were allowing partial redevelopment and rennovation of apartment blocks. They stipulated that half the units could be sold to owner occupiers renovated or unrenvated. The others, which had tenants, could buy, but they could not raise the rent above a certain small amount per year for three years.

At the time, you were getting decent yields (8.5%) and the tenants were usually very happy to stay. After three years, you could do what you wanted and that gave the people a chance to look for something else. By that time, the tennants, usually families had kids that were growing up fast and needed to move into something bigger anyway. It was easier to get them to move by that stage since they had three years warning.

It seemed to work well.

Jireh
 
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